Texas burst pipe

[Lance Withey]

Even though wrapped well and covered, myself along with several neighbors experience burst pipes with the recent weather event. Many of us had no electricity for days in near zero degree weather.
For some reason the builders routed copper between the foundation and the brick veneer on which extends down to the grade on elevated foundations, this likely leave and uninsulated void. Luckily, no water in the home as it is below floor level.
We are trying to figure out a way to isolate the loop that feeds our outside spigots and restore our interior plumbing. With the main at the curb on and the water softener cutoff shutoff all water in the house is cutoff, but water continues to pour from the burst pipe on the exterior. This tells me there is a junction somewhere between the curb and the water softener loop. My question where is the most likely place for tee to occur? We know the water main enters near my driveway/garage and the softener loop and cutoff are there. At this time as you can imagine we are trying ever plumber in town, we are one of thousands with burst pipes due to the combination of weather and lack of power. Your educated advice is appreciated.

Home was built in 2007. Concrete tensioned slab on grade.

 

[WorthFlorida]

It's a real disaster there. The news is all about TEXAS. Is the home wood frame or CBS? If it is CBS you could be in luck the pipe would be on the inside on the block wall then turned with an elbow to the outside. Wood frame would be no problem to open walls from the inside.

If the homes there are built like Florida, any tee would be above the slab in a wall, not below grade. Usually behind other fixtures such as sinks. If any of the spigots are near a fixture from inside the home, you may have to open the wall behind the sink, washing machine, etc., and cut and cap off the spigot pipe. If they are anywhere then open the wall to get to the pipe. I doubt they are in one loop. The other problem is Home depot, Lowes and hardware stores will be sold out of copper fittings and pipe and probably for all others such as CPVC and PEX, though they can take a freeze better except PEX couplings. My last home built in 1989=90, I had copper and the two spigot were from the inside shower cold water pipe. It ran along the block water before turning to the outside wall.

My home has no shut off valves for the three spigots outside and each are in the CBS wall. The house is CPVC plumbed so I know there are couplings below the slab but they come up in the wall to feed the sink and tee off to continue on the the next fixture.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

If I find pipes in an attic space, I remove the insulation from the lines, and lay a blanket of insulation over the pipes trapping whatever heat there is from the interior of the home.

Pipe insulation alone doesn't do much, though it is plumbing code okay to do that. My experience with repair frozen lines though, is that you want to allow the inside of the dwelling to keep the pipes as warm as possible. For me, I would never run pipes in an attic space. A frozen and split line there does an amazing amount of damage to the structure below.

The question above is about pipes between the brick and the structure of a home. It may be best to get those from the inside of the home, rather than through the brick.
I will say that pipes in a crawl space rarely if ever will freeze unless they are right by a vent.

 

[Lance Withey]

The pipe that burst is between the outer vertical foundation and the brick. There is the floor level of the slab and a drop to a shelf that the brickwork sits on, this drop is about 4-5 feet at the back of the house. They ran the pipe through the slab and out, then down the between the brick and outside face of the slab. That gap is totally uninsulated and inaccessible unless I start breaking the bricks out. With 30 feet of brick above, I am not sure I want to start looking for the pipe and guessing what direction it runs behind the brick, I have it in about 4x4 foot area. This is why I am trying to determine where it is fed from the main and what the common practice might be. I know it enters near the garage and at the softener there is a cutoff. When the cutoff is closed and the main at the curb is open the outside spigots still receive flow. It may be better just to cap it there and pull a new line around the house if I can find where it branches off the main.
Most of all, I appreciate the replies.

 

[Jeff H Young]

some place between the softener and where ever the main leaves the house. There are ways to find using common sense , but common sense likely not employed on this job> Between softener and main shut off If Softener is in garage then You would expect the main right next to it . disconnect water main at meter , run temporary line garden hose whatever on top of ground and drain every night assuming its not snowing out. and temps rise above freezing part of day. run it to soft water side only and don't let it back feed. I'm not there and not paying attention to your weather so this might be totally unfeasible.
If so just wait it out sorry.
When weather permits might try a line locator and blowing air through pipes imagine be able to hear it and find them. expensive and labor intense. just a few ideas forgive if they make no sense.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Lance, Just wanted to add Really sorry to hear of the hardship to all those with with freeze issues , and Weather accidents. I was aware of them but not well informed .

 

[WorthFlorida]

It is strange that a pipe is on the outside unfinished wall then covered over with brick. You would think that a pipe would freeze near the spigot since it sticks out and acts like a heat sink.
Take a look at thermo cameras that can detect leaks. I believe they detect temperature differences for leak detection. I'm not sure if it will work on brick but if it an area gets wet and the dampness seeps through to the outside surface you might have a chance to get closer to the location of the leak. Some are a few hundred dollars and others get expensive. It might be worth it instead of digging trenches around the home. It be a cool tool to have and if you have kids or grandchildren it be good for them to learn something new.

https://thermogears.com/best-thermal-imaging-camera-for-leak-detection/

 

[Lance Withey]

I have drilled 4 holes - 2 to find the water main entering the garage and the branch loop for spigots leaving. I still can't tell if the loop that leaves is more shared or independent per hose bib as there is a drain also over the top of the location.
2 more holes were drilled near the leak just above the sill plate. Look what I found! It looks like a valve, but it has some alloy melted around it. What is the alloy or filler and how is the alloy removed so I can close this valve?

For those who might want to know how I knew where to drill. I used a measuring tape to establish landmarks inside and outside of the house. The hose bib is the far from the edge of the window. Then used a magnet to find studs to determine the cavities along with a simple $20 IR thermometer to find temp differences in the wall. I ended up adjacent to the main and valve each time only drilling a second hole for more direct inspection.

To give you an idea of what the wait is like for a plumber, its over a month just to triage situations. Lack of power combined with southern construction has around 1:5 of my people I know without water.

 

[Reach4]

I wonder if they will permit plumbers from other states to work temporarily with full disclosure. They bring in power crews from other states. They should suspend the monopoly.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Can you provide a picture of the exterior where all of this is happening. Also a wider picture of this valve buried. It's hard to tell anything other then the handle. It might be an epoxy of sorts. Is this handle above grade and inside a wall? Is it vertical or horizontal? If you have a wood stud wall, is the spigot above the floor? Can you open an inside wall buy cutting drywall to get access?

 

[WorthFlorida]

I wonder if they will permit plumbers from other states to work temporarily with full disclosure. They bring in power crews from other states. They should suspend the monopoly.

A fully licensed plumber with his own business in Texas could technically hire someone as a sub contractor from out the state & work under his Texas licensed.

 

[TJanak]

I wonder if they will permit plumbers from other states to work temporarily with full disclosure. They bring in power crews from other states. They should suspend the monopoly.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/t...se-plumbers-to-help-amid-high-demand/2558240/