Questions on replacing shutoff valve under sink

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JasonM

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FWIW, tubular plastic is typically polypropylene, not PVC or ABS, but the material doesn't matter, since the joint is a compression joint on the outside of the tube.

I don't know if you're going to find a tubular 22.5 degree bend. So if you want a 22.5 degree bend, the best bet if you need to cut the trap arm is to use a solvent weld ABS 22.5 degree bend, then a trap adapter.

The current trap is removable by undoing the black hub joint and the trap adapter, so you might see if that give you enough access.

Cheers, Wayne
Thank you wwhitney very much for the comments.

I was looking for ABS slip joint connection like Keeney 1-1/2-in Plastic Straight Coupling, but I could not find. I guess they do not make this slip joint in ABS form. This would be the best if I cut the trap arm at point B. I do not need to use the ABS cement.

I will remove the current ABS P trap to see if this removal will give enough access for the work. Otherwise, I need to do your following suggestion.
I don't know if you're going to find a tubular 22.5 degree bend. So if you want a 22.5 degree bend, the best bet if you need to cut the trap arm is to use a solvent weld ABS 22.5 degree bend, then a trap adapter.

Thank you very much.
 

wwhitney

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I was looking for ABS slip joint connection like Keeney 1-1/2-in Plastic Straight Coupling, but I could not find. I guess they do not make this slip joint in ABS form. This would be the best if I cut the trap arm at point B. I do not need to use the ABS cement.
Schedule 40 ABS does not use slip joint connections. And I doubt any tubular plastic is ABS.

If you cut the Schedule 40 ABS trap arm, you can repair it in two different ways:

1) If you make a nice square cut away from any hubs, you can deburr both cut ends and repair the trap arm. You could use a solvent weld coupling, or a shielded rubber coupling like this one (requires the proper torque wrench):

https://www.fernco.com/dimensional-drawings/3000-150

Both of those options will probably slightly lengthen the trap arm, as they have an internal stop, whose thickness is likely greater than your saw kerf. Also if your cut is not square, that will end up lengthening the trap arm. But looking at your photo, the vertical ABS doesn't look quite coaxial with the silver sink tailpiece, so a tiny amount of extra length would be good.

2) Or you can rebuild everything from your cut to the sink tailpiece. For that using mostly tubular would be simpler. Depending on where you cut, you'd need to solvent weld on the 22.5 degree bend, then a short section of pipe (you can cut off a piece of the removed pipe), then a hub trap adapter, then all tubular slip joint pieces. You'd want to plan your cut so that the immediate 22.5 degree bend would work to get the trap arm close enough to the sink tailpiece (in projection from above) for your tubular trap to fit.

Cheers, Wayne
 

JasonM

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Schedule 40 ABS does not use slip joint connections. And I doubt any tubular plastic is ABS.

If you cut the Schedule 40 ABS trap arm, you can repair it in two different ways:

1) If you make a nice square cut away from any hubs, you can deburr both cut ends and repair the trap arm. You could use a solvent weld coupling, or a shielded rubber coupling like this one (requires the proper torque wrench):

https://www.fernco.com/dimensional-drawings/3000-150

Both of those options will probably slightly lengthen the trap arm, as they have an internal stop, whose thickness is likely greater than your saw kerf. Also if your cut is not square, that will end up lengthening the trap arm. But looking at your photo, the vertical ABS doesn't look quite coaxial with the silver sink tailpiece, so a tiny amount of extra length would be good.

2) Or you can rebuild everything from your cut to the sink tailpiece. For that using mostly tubular would be simpler. Depending on where you cut, you'd need to solvent weld on the 22.5 degree bend, then a short section of pipe (you can cut off a piece of the removed pipe), then a hub trap adapter, then all tubular slip joint pieces. You'd want to plan your cut so that the immediate 22.5 degree bend would work to get the trap arm close enough to the sink tailpiece (in projection from above) for your tubular trap to fit.

Cheers, Wayne
Thank you wwhitney very much for the comments.

I think I will use #2 if I need to.
My son is working on it without removing the drain pipe so far. His body is better.

Can I ask some urgent question. The copper supply line shutoff valve is not not coming out from the pipe. We removed the nut of the compression shutoff valve, but somehow the body of the shutoff valve is stuck with the ferrule or ring. How can we easily pull out the body of the old shutoff valve?
We sprayed penetrating oil on it.

Thank you very mucn.
 

Reach4

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an I ask some urgent question. The copper supply line shutoff valve is not not coming out from the pipe. We removed the nut of the compression shutoff valve, but somehow the body of the shutoff valve is stuck with the ferrule or ring. How can we easily pull out the body of the old shutoff valve?
Wiggle as you pull. Your access is awkward, so you have a hard time applying sufficient force.
 

JasonM

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Wiggle as you pull. Your access is awkward, so you have a hard time applying sufficient force.
Thank you Reach4 very much for the reply.

I will give it a try. It is over 40 years old. Any other tricks, I would appreciate it very much.

Thank you very much.
 

JasonM

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Wiggle as you pull. Your access is awkward, so you have a hard time applying sufficient force.
Thank you Reach4 very much.
We held the ring with a plier and wiggleed the main body with wrench slightly, and it came out.
Thank you very much.
 

JasonM

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Thanks to the great help from Reach4 and wwhitney and Mr Tee, I successfully replaced both shut off valves with the new quarter turn angle valve as well as the 35 plus years old faucet with a new one.

20201226_182651.jpg 20201226_182418.jpg 20201226_182826.jpg

The most difficult part of the work, which is replacing the valves in the hard to reach area, was done by my young son without needing to cut the drain pipe.

The following is my observation for any DIY beginner like me.
1. I used the Pasco Compression Sleeve Puller in pulling out the ferrule without difficulty. I think it is essential.
2. Both new shutoff valves leaked water a little bit after tightening more in 2 more testing, so I unscrewed the nut and wrapped the ferrule with the Teflon tape several times in addition to applying the thread sealant enough around the nut thread and nut hole area, as Terry suggested. And then, tightening more in 2 more testing, the leak completely stopped. I am very grateful to Terry for that.

Since I am a novice, when I work on any plumbing work, I try to prepare as much as possible for unexpected situations. And that is why I asked where to cut the drain pipe if needed. While going thru this hypothetical question, I learned a lot on the drain pipe, slip nut joint, abs pipes and etc, thanks to Reach4 and wwhitney. I really appreciate your helping, enlightening me in these area.

May I ask one minor question?
I could not reuse the copper pipe on to the new 1/4 angle valve due to size difference, so I used the 36" braided supply line. Is there any adapter to make this fit to the angle valve? I measured and the copper pipe ID is 3/8". Or is this the case that the size is the right, but my son made a mistake?
20201226_190045.jpg

Again, I thank Reach4 and wwhitney very much for helping me on this.
 

Reach4

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I could not reuse the copper pipe on to the new 1/4 angle valve due to size difference, so I used the 36" braided supply line. Is there any adapter to make this fit to the angle valve? I measured and the copper pipe ID is 3/8". Or is this the case that the size is the right, but my son made a mistake?
There are valves made to fit 1/2 OD 3/8 ID. Those are much less common than 3/8 od compression output valves.

Now you want to adapt a 3/8 compression output valve to that tubing. I don't find an adapter to do that directly, but I can find adapters that convert 1/2 od tubing to FIP or MIP threads.
 

JasonM

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There are valves made to fit 1/2 OD 3/8 ID. Those are much less common than 3/8 od compression output valves.

Now you want to adapt a 3/8 compression output valve to that tubing. I don't find an adapter to do that directly, but I can find adapters that convert 1/2 od tubing to FIP or MIP threads.
Thank you Reach4 very much for the reply.

Well, if there is no direct adapter to fit this copper pipe from the 1/4 turn stop valve, I think I will save this copper tube for later possible use and keep this 36" braided supply line. I will put a tag on the supply line to indicate the installation date so that hopefully, this can be replaced in 10 years by someone else before it can create a problem.

Thank you Reach4 very much for your help. This is a great forum, and I learned a lot and got a lot of help from here.
 
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