Plumbing addition testing?

[Mycorrado]

Hi,

I am plumbing a new washer drain into a closet adjacent to a bathroom, tying into the bath drain. the lavatory drain ties into an existing 3" cast iron vertical vent, which I will replace with PVC. I would plumb a 2" horizontal drain to which the washer and lavatory would connect to, and that 2" pipe draining into the 3" stack.

There are no cleanout plugs in the bath, nor do I see one in the front of the house (1965 ish cast iron drains).

Can you give me feedback on my design?

-

Do I need the vent section between the sink drain and washer trap? I would think it could vent from the lavatory vent (wet vent) since they are only 3 feet appart and the drain is 2".

-How and where do I plug the drain addition to show the inspector it holds water?

- Do I need to add a cleanout at the base of the 3" stack and insert a balloon there? what will test the no hub PVC to CI joint?



Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

Dallas use IPC, doesn't it? If so, to meet current IPC you need to make the combos you called "long Y T" have 3 inch outputs and 3 inch path after other stuff joins the laundry flow.

Maybe they will give you a pass on that.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mycorrado]

Thanks, I checked my City and yes IPC 2015. Alternatively could just run the 2" to the vertical stack and the lavatory can drain horizontally as well (current bathroom config is horizontal galvanized pipe into the cast iron vertical).

 

[Reach4]

Do I need the vent section between the sink drain and washer trap? I would think it could vent from the lavatory vent (wet vent) since they are only 3 feet appart and the drain is 2".

Yes, you need the vent. Wet venting is only for bathroom groups.

So I think this is what you proposed. That works.

Now what about adding cleanout? Can either of the two santees be combined with a cleanout?

Maybe a 2 inch or 1.5 inch on the left, and a 3 inch facing out? Depends on if that side port is "sanitary pattern". Charlotte 416 does not mark that piece with an (N), but does that imply all ports are sanitary pattern? I don't know.

A cleanout could go above the sanitary tees too, and probably, but not necessarily, below the vent tee-off. In fact, that side inlet santee could be used as the tee for vent and a cleanout with no worry about whether that side port is sanitary pattern.


https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spears-P416-337-3-PVC-DWV-Sanitary-Tee-w-1-1-2-Left-Side-Inlet
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spears-P416-338-3-PVC-DWV-Sanitary-Tee-w-2-Left-Side-Inlet

 

[Mycorrado]

did I understand IPC the cleanout can be one size smaller? so 2" facing out would work too?

 

[James Henry]

The clean out has to be the same size of the drain, only on 4" and larger can the clean out remain 4".

 

[Reach4]

did I understand IPC the cleanout can be one size smaller? so 2" facing out would work too?

Would that help? Maybe you could use a 3 inch double wye, with the laundry or laundry+lavatory into the left leg, and stick a street elbow for the cleanout into the right leg.

IPC - 708.7
. Cleanouts shall be the same nominal size as the pipe
they are connected to, up to 4 inches

 

[Mr tee]

I don't know the IPC, but strongly suspect that they would consider 2 1/2" one size smaller than 3", just like the UPC does. 3" cast iron clean-out adapters use 2 1/2" plugs, as do Tom-kaps.

 

[wwhitney]

Hi,
Can you give me feedback on my design?

I think most of your questions have been addressed, so let me respond to the one on your drawing. The basic answer is your situation is "either."

For drainage, a san-tee can be used with the straight path vertical only. The side inlet and bottom are drains, and the top can be a drain or a vent take-off. A combo can used in any orientation for drains, but the only way it can be used as a vent take-off is with the straight path horizontal and the side inlet vertical or rolled up to 45 degrees off vertical. [OK, under the IPC, a san-tee can arguably be used in the same orientation for a vent takeoff on a horizontal drain, instead of a combo, but that seems weird to me.]

- what will test the no hub PVC to CI joint?

First, the PVC to CI joint is properly a shielded rubber coupling (thicker flat shield, designed for joining different materials) and not a ho-hub coupling (thinner corrugated shield, designed only for CI to CI).

As to the test, there's no way to statically test it. But when you let the water out of your static test of everything else, that will be a pretty good dynamic test. Keep an eye out for leaks at that time. If you use a proper shielded rubber coupling, with both pipes in line and fully inserted to the stop, and tighten it to the spec with the proper torque wrench, it's a very reliable connection, to my knowledge.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

First, the PVC to CI joint is properly a shielded rubber coupling (thicker flat shield, designed for joining different materials) and not a ho-hub coupling (thinner corrugated shield, designed only for CI to CI).

Good points.

If the cast iron at the bottom has a hub, then a Fernco Donut would be used rather than a shielded coupling.

Also, before cutting the existing piping, strongly support the pipe above the top cut. A riser clamp can be helpful. That could be in the attic right above the cut, assuming there is no cast iron joint below the riser clamp.

 

[wwhitney]

If the cast iron at the bottom has a hub, then a Fernco Donut would be used rather than a shielded coupling.

That's definitely an option. But assuming you had the available height, you could also cut the cast iron a couple inches above the hub and use the shielded rubber coupling. Not sure which way is easier to execute, I've not used the donuts myself.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

Id put 3 inch cleanout on top . unless its unsightly of cource with a cover thats the best place other than estetics

 

[Reach4]

Id put 3 inch cleanout on top . unless its unsightly of cource with a cover thats the best place other than estetics

Would you put it above the upside down santee that feeds the dry vent to the standpipe? Or would you put that upside down santee above the cleanout?

mycorrado, there are different fittings that you can use for the cleanout, depending how deep/shallow you want.

 

[Mycorrado]

@wwhitney Thanks, yes I got the correct coupling, just used the wrong name. it is a CI to PVC with solid shield. I've already made the cuts carefully supporting the top piece (was only about 3 ft up the shallow attic and out. ). came out super easy using a soil pipe chain cutter.

@Reach4 seems to me the side inlet would be difficult to use with a snake given the sharp 90? The other option would be a Y on the horizontal drain but it's not clear to me if the Y inlet can be laid horizontal. I think I read somewhere it has to be up or 45 degrees at most, which would place it towards the wall access hole.

 

[Mycorrado]

Id put 3 inch cleanout on top . unless its unsightly of cource with a cover thats the best place other than estetics

that's the issue it would place it smack on top of the toilet, visible access panel..

 

[Reach4]

@Reach4 seems to me the side inlet would be difficult to use with a snake given the sharp 90?

I was picturing that the little side hole would connect to the trap arm, and the big 3 inch hole would be the cleanout.

@Reach4 seems to me the side inlet would be difficult to use with a snake given the sharp 90? The other option would be a Y on the horizontal drain but it's not clear to me if the Y inlet can be laid horizontal. I think I read somewhere it has to be up or 45 degrees at most, which would place it towards the wall access hole.

I don't know about that rolling, but if the cleanout goes on a 3 inch horizontal pipe carrying both lavatory and laundry, I would want the horizontal continue to a 45+wye or combo, rather than to a santee. Otherwise, the snake would have a hard time turning down when it hit the vertical.

 

[Jeff H Young]

first thing is w

I don't know the IPC, but strongly suspect that they would consider 2 1/2" one size smaller than 3", just like the UPC does. 3" cast iron clean-out adapters use 2 1/2" plugs, as do Tom-kaps.

Im from upc and yes we can go one size smaller on cleanout. ipc no such luxury. we use Tom caps frequently on homes especialy garage floors. I guess not in the land of ipc

 

[wwhitney]

Now what about adding cleanout? Can either of the two santees be combined with a cleanout? Maybe a 2 inch or 1.5 inch on the left, and a 3 inch facing out? Depends on if that side port is "sanitary pattern". Charlotte 416 does not mark that piece with an (N), but does that imply all ports are sanitary pattern? I don't know.

My recollection is that most of the Charlotte parts have a non-sanitary side entry, but other PVC makers offers sanitary tees with sanitary side inlets. It would be nice to have a cleanout low enough it can also be used for testing. Not sure if a side entry san-tee would be easily blocked on both inlets for testing.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Mycorrado]

I picked up a side inlet sanitary to look at it, and the inlet I got looks sanitary. the only issue I see is the drain plug adapter would end up sticking out the wall about 3 inches, somewhere behind the toilet, to the left of it. Somewhat of an eyesore. I envisioned dropping/placing the test balloon on the lower portion of the T, but then again I've never used one, so not sure if they fit.

 

[wwhitney]

You don't have the height for a threaded test tee below your sanitary tee? Sadly test tees don't seem to be available as a street version in plastic, but at least the sanitary tee above it could be street. [You could also look at using a cast iron test tee with a plastic street sanitary tee, that might be shorter.]

If you use a 3" sanitary tee with a fitting clean out adapter and a flush plug, I think it should only stick out 4" from the center line of the 3" vertical pipe, or 2.25" from the edge of the pipe.

Cheers, Wayne