No Love for Hybrid Water Heaters...

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CleanSC

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Fellas!

I need a water heater for my home in hot, sunny Florida. No gas available in the garage so it will be electric.

I had read so many good things on the heat pump/hybrid models but man there is a dislike for them on here when I came on to check.

Are they that bad still? I understand the previous generations had their kinks and were expensive. ($1,000 now) I read the current Rheem ones are pretty good with some real watts to be saved.

Mine would be situated in a hot garage almost year round so I seem to be a good candidate for this. I can even plumb in 120-degree attic air if I wanted.

Additionally, they have a 10-year parts warranty and I can turn a wrench as long as they send me the parts. Or for $69 you add 5 years for a total of 6 years labor warranty from HD.

The comparable tried and true regular WH is $419. So the differential is not that bad if the hybrid unit will return the savings eventually.

I'll handle the install myself, I've done a few of these.

Thoughts?
 

Dana

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It depends on your electricity rates and how much hot water you actually use, but the $419 cost difference would be recouped in under three years for a 2-3 person household, even in cheap electricity country. (For a grungy single guy who showers once a week, maybe not.) Some utilities/states will subsidize them if it's replacing an existing electric water heater, not sure if that would be true in your location.

Like any new product type there were early learning curve issues to overcome. Even the (now discontinued, much reviled) GE Geospring units were a lot more reliable in the final production year than in the early years. Some of the early innovating companies (eg Air Generate) have gone under, but the concept seems here to stay.

The biggest complaint people have with Rheem's heat pump water heaters is that they are among the noisiest in the business. But if it's in the garage on the other side of an insulated or block wall that's probably not a show-stopper.
 

CleanSC

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Ah, I knew I forgot something. My rates. This is for FPL in South Florida. (No subsidies here)

First 1,ooo kWh = $0.0875
After 1,000 kWh = $0.10769

Last 12 months looked like so:
6 months just over 1,000 kWh.
6 months under 1,000 kWh.
Yearly average is 1,268 kWh per month. (This should go down when we replace the 50-year old windows)

This is just my wife and myself on a current standard electric tank. We will be having kids soon. Wife likes her hot water.

Also, we are planning to get a generator for storm outages and figure a heat pump water heater is more generator-friendly than 20 amps of resistance heaters. Last year after Irma we were out of power for 8 days. The tank kept hot water for 4 of those! Not bad.

Yes, noise is no issue being in the garage. It's in the far corner away from the living space. Any space conditioning no matter how small is an added bonus.
 

Dana

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With potentially 4 people showering or tub-bathing daily it's probably going to be worth upsizing to a 65-80 gallon version. The recovery times of even the hybrid types can be pretty slow, but the higher cost of the bigger units may take quite a bit longer to "pay off".

If you duct such that it cools part of the the house rather than the garage there may be a quicker payback too, but that may complicate (and add cost to) the installation.
 

CleanSC

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Thanks, Dana. To clarify, the proposed 50-gallon unit will serve the master bath, kitchen and laundry only. So I think the 50-gallon should be sufficient.

The other full bath has it's own 40-gallon standard water heater. (Split bedroom plan house)
 

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Thanks, Dana. To clarify, the proposed 50-gallon unit will serve the master bath, kitchen and laundry only. So I think the 50-gallon should be sufficient.

The other full bath has it's own 40-gallon standard water heater. (Split bedroom plan house)


OK 50 gallons should be plenty then! (That is, unless you have a gusher waterfall shower with six 2 gpm sidesprays or a big 60 gallon soaker tub or something.)
 

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No fancy shower. I'll put a hand shower in there with the typical 2.5 gpm. The tub actually is larger than the standard tub but not by much. I'll take some measurements to get an idea. Wife will soak sometimes but she only fills the tub to a depth of 8 to 10 inches.
 

CleanSC

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Ok I'm reviving this thread as I am about to pull the trigger on this hybrid unit. I've read the latest reviews and some are positive and we have one that exploded in Florida on this forum. I'm now debating if to just get a 40-gallon standard tank ($359) or splurge to the hybrid at $1,169. The difference is $810. My electric rates are listed above and as I understand it, relatively low, so would I recoup this in a normal time frame compared to the life of the unit?

This of course depends if 40-gallons is enough to supply one half of the house which is master bath/kitchen/laundry. The other side of the house has a 40-gallon Rheem for a full bath and currently serves that side just fine. The 50-gallon is $424, so $65 bucks extra, likely worth it.

Any thoughts on this decision? Hot garage in FL, so a good candidate for this, but a fireball out of another poster's hybrid in the same environment is not comforting.

Thanks, all!
 

CleanSC

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I found a scratch and dent in the box ProE40 for $275 on Craigslist. I'm assuming no warranty but for a standard mechanical unit at that price, who needs it? Getting them serviced is a PITA from what I read anyway. Has the brass valve, unlike the Home Depot versions. Maybe a good idea?
 

CleanSC

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I found an AO Smith 50 gallon hybrid unit (the Lowes one) for $500 locally brand new in the box. I'm assuming no warranty but at almost the price of a standard tank, worst case it's back to resistance heater? Seems worth a look, no?
 

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I found an AO Smith 50 gallon hybrid unit (the Lowes one) for $500 locally brand new in the box. I'm assuming no warranty but at almost the price of a standard tank, worst case it's back to resistance heater? Seems worth a look, no?

It's $500 that's at-risk, but short of an abusively incorrect installation I'd assume that the warranty should still apply if it failed in the first few years (or manufacturing date + warranty period). If there's a warranty card in the box to mail in, do it!
 

CleanSC

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Good point! If the box is truly unopened as described and everything looks good (they'll let me open it to check for damage), including the warranty card, I think it's a good risk to take. Thanks for the vote!
 

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It depends on your electricity rates and how much hot water you actually use, but the $419 cost difference would be recouped in under three years for a 2-3 person household, even in cheap electricity country. (For a grungy single guy who showers once a week, maybe not.) Some utilities/states will subsidize them if it's replacing an existing electric water heater, not sure if that would be true in your location.

Like any new product type there were early learning curve issues to overcome. Even the (now discontinued, much reviled) GE Geospring units were a lot more reliable in the final production year than in the early years. Some of the early innovating companies (eg Air Generate) have gone under, but the concept seems here to stay.

The biggest complaint people have with Rheem's heat pump water heaters is that they are among the noisiest in the business. But if it's in the garage on the other side of an insulated or block wall that's probably not a show-stopper.

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I saw this comment and I was curious. Looking at datasheets it would seem like the current Rheem's are the quietest, not noisiest. They are rated at 49dBA. Bradford White, AO Smith, etc... are all higher with sound levels as high as 54dBA. I am curious if this has changed since 2018, is it datasheet wizardry, or just a misconception?
 

CleanSC

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OP here... I finally ended up getting one, and from my understanding, Rheem is constantly changing these and improving them. The early models had their issues but they are several generations in at this point (this year brought a new version, again) and they are pretty solid. Mine is not very loud but I have it in a garage. I have to get closer to it to verify it's on. The cold air pumping out of it is a nice little bonus but best of all the thing just barely uses electricity. I got it for $799 - $300 federal rebate so it was a no-brainer. 10-year warranty. So far, I'm loving mine!
 

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Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I saw this comment and I was curious. Looking at datasheets it would seem like the current Rheem's are the quietest, not noisiest. They are rated at 49dBA. Bradford White, AO Smith, etc... are all higher with sound levels as high as 54dBA. I am curious if this has changed since 2018, is it datasheet wizardry, or just a misconception?

Mind you, there are some REFRIGERATORS out there louder than 54dBA (though most run about 50.) The fan on my desktop computer at the end of my desk is probably about 60dBA measured at my desk chair (though I haven't actually measured it.)

A decade ago some heat pump water heaters were pretty obnoxious & whiney and that became a consumer complaint that has since been corrected. They're now quieter than most forced-draft gas water heaters.
 

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Mind you, there are some REFRIGERATORS out there louder than 54dBA (though most run about 50.) The fan on my desktop computer at the end of my desk is probably about 60dBA measured at my desk chair (though I haven't actually measured it.)

A decade ago some heat pump water heaters were pretty obnoxious & whiney and that became a consumer complaint that has since been corrected. They're now quieter than most forced-draft gas water heaters.

Just curious, if I have a 20+ year old power vent propane water heater, how would this compare? I can't find any sould level specs on current power vent fans to know how much of a difference a heat pump would be.
 

Dana

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Just curious, if I have a 20+ year old power vent propane water heater, how would this compare? I can't find any sould level specs on current power vent fans to know how much of a difference a heat pump would be.

According to the video poster, this one measured 74dBA @ even 15 feet from the vent termination. The quieter tankless water heater measured 55-57dBA. You'll notice it's a LOT louder when he opens up the door to the utility closet.
 

MikeQ

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OP here... I finally ended up getting one, and from my understanding, Rheem is constantly changing these and improving them. The early models had their issues but they are several generations in at this point (this year brought a new version, again) and they are pretty solid. Mine is not very loud but I have it in a garage. I have to get closer to it to verify it's on. The cold air pumping out of it is a nice little bonus but best of all the thing just barely uses electricity. I got it for $799 - $300 federal rebate so it was a no-brainer. 10-year warranty. So far, I'm loving mine!

Yeah, they are pretty nice in the money savings department and the cool, dry air they put off can be either a blessing or a curse depending upon where it is located. The heat-pump water heater in our Kauai condo kept the water heater closet deliciously cool all year even though it had a louvered laundry closet door. Sometimes I would go stand in the water heater/laundry closet to cool off! The dry air is a nice benefit almost anywhere.
 
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