Oh no. What did I do to my gate valve?

[RobK68]

In an effort to diagnose a shower faucet issue, I had to turn the water service off to the shower. Both hot and cold water services have gate valves to isolate the shower. The whole bathroom actually.

I was running the hot water tap to monitor that the hot water was off. But closing the gate value did not turn the water off completely. Question 1 ... why? I continued to reef of the handle to a point where I lost any resistance. Now, not only can I not turn off the water completely, I can't turn it on either.

Oh no. Question 2 and 3 ... what happened, and can it be repaired without having to replace the whole valve assembly with soldering and all?

 

[Terry]

If you have an expansion tank for the water heater, it would still drain a lot of water after a shut down. If you mean an isolation valve just for the shower, then shutting the valve there would stop it pretty quickly. Like real quick.
If you have stripped the gate valve, there may be a replacement in your future. I did that one time on an underground water line for a well system that was connected to eight homes. After that I never reefed on a gate valve again. Tight but not reefed.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[WorthFlorida]

.... Question 2 and 3 ... what happened, and can it be repaired without having to replace the whole valve assembly with soldering and all?

Gate valves alway have a high failure rate and they do break. As Terry suggest the threaded stem may have stripped or it broke in half. But it is not all lost. There are Shark bite ball valves and couplings that are available and all you need is a pipe cutter. Shark bite & other manufacturers call them press fittings or push and connect, they are quite reliable and well made.
https://www.sharkbite.com/resources/video/how-install-sharkbite-push-connect-stop-valves

 

[RobK68]

Hi all! Thank you for sharing your insights into my dilemma.
I took the valve apart (after turning the water off of course). This is what I pulled out:



I'm thinking of going and buying a replacement valve, taking it apart, and replacing the guts of the old valve with the new one. But, I question whats going on inside the valve housing itself? Is there still stuff inside broken that would prevent me from doing that successfully? When I turn my water on, I do get water escaping from the open gate valve housing.

 

[LLigetfa]

There is still the gate itself which is a moving part. If you can find a new one that is the same brand/model, you should be able to swap parts. You will also get to see what is still left inside that has to come out.

I hate gate valves with a passion. Do as was suggested and replace it with a ball valve.

 

[Sylvan]

YIKES "Gate valves alway have a high failure rate and they do break"

Oh my after installing 4"-10" gate valves on 125# steam supply and fire suppression systems (stand pipes) I had no idea that all those valves I installed over 50 YEARS AGO are not working and were prone to failure

Even the ones I installed last year seem to be working

Possibly the failures can be attributed to lack of maintenance such as opening and closing them as I do for the yearly fire suppressing testing or they were foreign made or installed improperly

 

[RobK68]

Hey thanks LLigetfa. I scrapped the gate valve and opted for one of those sharkbite type ball valves. I'm a bit apprehensive in the adaptation.
As this is a repair, do I put the pieces to gether first (the two copper ends to the valve) and then solder to the existing copper? Or solder first then install the valve? The instructions on the tag of the valve are not very clear.

 

[Sylvan]

Notice the "gate valves"

 

[Sylvan]

The problem with a gate valve is some people use it for throttling and this will cause premature failure

A gate valve is for positive shut off fully open or fully closed

I do use a lot of various valves depending on the application and code requirements

 

[Sylvan]

Hi all! Thank you for sharing your insights into my dilemma.
I took the valve apart (after turning the water off of course). This is what I pulled out:



I'm thinking of going and buying a replacement valve, taking it apart, and replacing the guts of the old valve with the new one. But, I question whats going on inside the valve housing itself? Is there still stuff inside broken that would prevent me from doing that successfully? When I turn my water on, I do get water escaping from the open gate valve housing.

1650 3rd ave Manhattan the building is over 100 years old and I never had to replace a gate valve BUT I did go to NY replacement parts and bought a new stem and gate

I watched them make a gate being adapted by making a small grove on either side of a gate to make it work also

The only hard part is trying to remove the gate that was severed off the stem

 

[LLigetfa]

As this is a repair, do I put the pieces to gether first (the two copper ends to the valve) and then solder to the existing copper?

The heat would likely destroy the seals in the sharkbite if you did that. If you have to solder anyway, why not just stick with a sweat connection? How much movement do you have to spread apart the two ends to insert either the sharkbite or the sweat ends? If there is not enough movement, you need a repair sweat coupling that can slide over the cut ends.

 

[LLigetfa]

Possibly the failures can be attributed to lack of maintenance such as opening and closing them as I do for the yearly fire suppressing testing

How many homeowners do you think would actually exercise them annually unless obligated to do so?

BTW, PVC ball valves too can seize up from lack of exercise. I have had to say a prayer when trying to close one. The same goes for the bypass valves on water treatment equipment.

 

[RobK68]

Got ya! No heat to the valve.
So, I have to put the gate between the two open end of the repair. That success will be determined whether or no I cna pull the etwo ends apart enough to put the gate in. No harm in trying I guess.

 

[hj]

Sylvan, thise 4" - 12' gate valves have NO relationship to the small ones, as far as durability goes. Besuides, most of them are OS&Y rising stem valves.

 

[RobK68]

So I managed to get it on. It was a fight mostly because it was a a difficult spot.
But I have a leak (drip). I'm not sure if its from the valve end, or if its from a bad solder job. Might even be a rough end of the copper becuase it was such a short piece. I'm not the greatest solderer especially in tight confines.

Do these thing come off once on? Or is it a better get it right the first time type deal? I won't be able to clean the copper, or resolder if necessary.

 

[RobK68]

Looks like mission successful. A few burns later, a lot of cussing and some reefing (just kidding, persuasion is a better word), I appear leak free.
Interesting thing those Sharkbite valves. I spent some time in between curing to see if I could figure out how they work. No idea. But certianly impressed.

Now, you all did a wonderful job pointing me in the right direction. Anyone care to speculate what might be causing the problem that led me to this demise? I still have no hot water to my Moen PosiTemp shower faucet. I have no other other valves between it and the valve I just replaced, so it should be getting hot water.

 

[LLigetfa]

I spent some time in between curing to see if I could figure out how they work. No idea.

The seal is an O-ring. They have a collar that when pushed in disengages the teeth on the sharkbite for removal. There are specific tools to push the collar in or you can use an adjustable wrench in a pinch. It helps to have three hands if working in very tight quarters.

 

[Bannerman]

I still have no hot water to my Moen PosiTemp shower faucet.

Did you also open the cold supply valve to the Posi-Temp?

Thermostatically controlled valves will not typically pass water unless both hot and cold water is supplied.

 

[Sylvan]

How many homeowners do you think would actually exercise them annually unless obligated to do so?

BTW, PVC ball valves too can seize up from lack of exercise. I have had to say a prayer when trying to close one. The same goes for the bypass valves on water treatment equipment.

Anyone who ever owned a home should try their main valve once or twice a year WOULD you leave a car alone for YEARS then try to start it up?

 

[Sylvan]

Sylvan, thise 4" - 12' gate valves have NO relationship to the small ones, as far as durability goes. Besides, most of them are OS&Y rising stem valves.

Not all are rising stems fire suppression systems need to know that it is OPEN others dont need a rising stem and where space is limited

The other reason to use a rising stem is to keep the stem out of harms way by keeping it above the valve disc

I used Fairbanks and Walworth, Stockham ,Jenkins ,Crane, Milwaukee and NEVER had a problem

Of course these valves cost 4 times more then imported crap

Look at the picture above GATE, OS&Y and ball along with globe

When I installed and inspect boilers I want to see a GATE valve and a Ball valve

The reason being

Open the gate valve first fully open then the Ball valve FAST to blow out any sediment and then use the gate valve to close the blow down to prevent any possibility of hydrostatic shock