Need help designing Trickle feed system for low yield well

[logjamjohn]

My partner has a property with no well and has water delivered to a 3000 gallon tank for domestic water. She has a standard jet pump - pressure tank set up drawing water off the bottom of the tank to feed a household of 5 people. Her 80+ year old father lives next door with a low yield well (we think about 1.5 gpm) that sometimes runs dry (for a day or 3 before recharging) in late summer due to our summer drought and his irrigation use. (also with a standard pressure tank setup feeding a household of 2 people). I'm working on putting together a system to give him more reliable water (and with storage tank reduce some of the sulfur gas smell) and get her off the delivered water. There is an unused 3000 gallon tank about 25' away from his well that I'm proposing to deliver water to from the well. We've already installed a 1" pvc line about 375' long that runs between these two tanks - her tank is also about 2' higher in elevation. My first idea is to link the two tanks together with this line running from the bottom of each tank. I'm hoping that as the tank near the well is filled to 3000 gallons the distant tank would fill to about 2000 gallons (2' below the 3000 gallon mark) as water seeks it's own level between tanks. Does this sound reasonable?

The basic operational design would be to fill the tank near the well controlling the well with with a Cycle Sensor type control and a float switch with relay. Add a jet pump (or possibly a submersible tank pump) to deliver water from/to the line at the bottom of the tank (same line that connects the 2 tanks) to the 2 person household ( reuse existing pressure tank and pressure switch on well). I'm thinking I'd also need another float switch to protect the jet pump if the tank emptied. I have many more questions about equipment and controls but I'm hoping I can first get some confirmation on this basic design or other recommended options to create the same result. These forums are an amazing resource. Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[Valveman]

Sounds like a good plan. You can use one booster pump to supply both houses, or you could have a booster pump at each storage tank if it is closer to the other house.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[tico007]

Also look into the Well Manager product. It does what you're looking for

 

[LLigetfa]

reduce some of the sulfur gas smell

You might consider using spray nozzles on the line filling the tank to increase aeration. Assuming the tanks or mostly closed, you may want a means to exchange the air trapped inside the tank. There might be adequate air exchange when the water level goes up and down.

An alternative to spray nozzles would be to use a Mazzei venturi to aerate the water.

 

[Valveman]

Also look into the Well Manager product. It does what you're looking for

The Well Manager is a good system. They have a pretty cool control system that incorporates both the Cycle Stop Valve and Cycle Sensor.

 

[Bannerman]

If the well recovery rate is actually 1.5 gpm, then installing a 1.5 gpm Dole valve on the outlet from the well pump should prevent the well from running short of water without causing the well pump to continuously cycle, unlike a timer control.

With 1,440 minutes/day @ 1.5 gpm will then result in 2,160 gallons/day tank refill rate.

If you wish to provide a safety buffer to ensure less water will be removed than the well recovery rate, the pump rate could be limited to 1.25 gpm resulting in 1,800 gallons/day, or @ 1 gpm, 1,440 gallons/day entering the cistern tanks.

With 7 people total, estimating a generous 75 gallons/day/person, the consumption without irrigation will be approx 525 gallons/day.

If the cistern tanks are regularly topped up to 4,600 gallons capacity and are refilled when 500 gallons has been consumed, there should be ~7.5 days of capacity remaining if there was ever to be an issue with the well or well pump. An alarm activated when the water level falls below 3500 gallons remaining should reduce nuisance alarms resulting from additional water use due to irrigation, but will alert you so as to address a potential problem long before the remaining capacity becomes depleted.

A Cycle Sensor will monitor the amount of electricity consumed by the well pump in case the well should run short of water. If the pump should start sucking air, the electrical amps will decrease which will cause the Cycle Sensor to shut off the pump to allow the well to recover before the pump is reactivated.

 

[logjamjohn]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm getting closer to a final design and now have more questions.
"Valveman" you show the float switch controlling a relay - I'm looking at the float switch doing direct control of one of the legs of the 230 v. power supply to the well pump (Goulds 1/2 HP 3 wire, 5GS05) using a SJE Rhombus float switch installed after pump protection control device - instead of using a relay. Do you see any issues with this type of control? Seems simpler but are there advantages to using a relay?

I've also noticed that all diagrams I've found show filling the storage tank from the top - is there a good reason not to fill these tanks from the bottom inlet which is also outlet for supplying water to the house? Seems there must be since everything I've seen seems to use this type of setup.

I am looking at using a 1.5 gpm Dole valve on the line from well to tank - does location of the Dole valve matter?

On the 3000 gallon tank that's closest to the well a jet pump will deliver water to a 2 person household reusing a nearly new Red Lion jet pump (RJS-50-PREM, 1/2 HP, 12 gpm) and an 86 gallon pressure tank. I plan to add a SJE Rhombus float switch to switch this pump off (again dirrectly in the line - no relay) when the tank lowers to about 1500 gallons to provide reserve water (with an override switch)when everything is running low. As well as a (Square D Pumptrol 30-50 PSI) pressure switch with a low pressure shutoff to protect the pump if the tank went below the outlet pipe (this type of pressure switch is what my partners dad claims has kept his well pump from burning out when the well ran dry during extended dry periods - the pressure dropped and shut off the well pump - does that sound right ?) Comments on this setup appreciated!
A couple other questions:
I think I need a check valve on the outlet of the jet pump to house?
With a check valve on the outlet will we get any water from the storage tank when the power is out via gravity flow - when tank is full enough or to downhill structures? Or would it help to plumb in a bypass around the pump and check valve?
Any ideas how long it might take water to level between tanks considering the dynamic head from the 375' long 1" pvc pipe connecting them with a number of twists and turns and a 2' elevation gain to get to tank #2? Thinking once the 3000 gal. tank fills (Tank #1) and well shuts off it will take some time for water to move to tank #2 to level off bringing down the level in tank #1 - and how I might set the wide swing float switch length in tank #1. Thanks again for any help!

 

[Valveman]

Answers in bold.

Thanks for all the responses. I'm getting closer to a final design and now have more questions.
"Valveman" you show the float switch controlling a relay - I'm looking at the float switch doing direct control of one of the legs of the 230 v. power supply to the well pump (Goulds 1/2 HP 3 wire, 5GS05) using a SJE Rhombus float switch installed after pump protection control device - instead of using a relay. Do you see any issues with this type of control? Seems simpler but are there advantages to using a relay? You only need the relay if the float switch cannot handle the current load. Most float switches can handle up to 1/2HP and larger pump need the relay.

I've also noticed that all diagrams I've found show filling the storage tank from the top - is there a good reason not to fill these tanks from the bottom inlet which is also outlet for supplying water to the house? Seems there must be since everything I've seen seems to use this type of setup. Filling from the top is called giving it an air gap. There is no way for the tank to drain back into the well if/when the check in the well pump malfunctions. It is just safer filling from the top.

I am looking at using a 1.5 gpm Dole valve on the line from well to tank - does location of the Dole valve matter? You will have more pressure on the pipe prior to the Dole valve than after. Other than that it doesn't matter. However, I would only use a Dole valve if the well was so weak and had such little stored water in the well that the pump could not run for at least a couple minutes at full flow. A 10 GPM pump can deliver 20 gallons in a couple minutes that way instead of 15 minutes of pump run time. Yo will also get more water out of the well by pumping it down, and timing the restart of the pump to let the well recover long enough to get another 2 minutes of run time. 2-5 minutes on and 30 minutes off until the float switch rises to shut the pump off can be done using a Cycle Sensor to protect the pump from dry run.

On the 3000 gallon tank that's closest to the well a jet pump will deliver water to a 2 person household reusing a nearly new Red Lion jet pump (RJS-50-PREM, 1/2 HP, 12 gpm) and an 86 gallon pressure tank. An 86 gallon tank only holds 20 gallons of water. Your water comes from the well and storage tank, not the pressure tank. The pressure tanks only purpose is to limit the on/off cycling of the pump. With a 30/50 switch the pressure will linger down close to 30 for a long time as you use the 20 gallons from the tank. You would like a constant 40 PSI from a Cycle Stop Valve as when using a 4.5 gallon size tank with it, as the pressure drop to 30 happens so fast all you see is a much stronger constant 40 PSI.

I plan to add a SJE Rhombus float switch to switch this pump off (again dirrectly in the line - no relay) when the tank lowers to about 1500 gallons to provide reserve water (with an override switch)when everything is running low. As well as a (Square D Pumptrol 30-50 PSI) pressure switch with a low pressure shutoff to protect the pump if the tank went below the outlet pipe (this type of pressure switch is what my partners dad claims has kept his well pump from burning out when the well ran dry during extended dry periods - the pressure dropped and shut off the well pump - does that sound right ?) Comments on this setup appreciated! Again another Cycle Sensor would be better at protecting the pump from running dry, as it doesn't rely on the pressure. That also means the Cycle Sensor doesn't cause nuisance trips when the power goes off like a low pressure cut off switch does. With the M4 feature on the Square D switch you have to go out and hold the little lever up to get the pump back running after every power outage. But it does work most of the time.

A couple other questions:
I think I need a check valve on the outlet of the jet pump to house? Best to have the check valve on the suction line between the storage tank and pump.

With a check valve on the outlet will we get any water from the storage tank when the power is out via gravity flow - when tank is full enough or to downhill structures? Or would it help to plumb in a bypass around the pump and check valve? Water will flow right through the check valve and pump. No need for a bypass.

Any ideas how long it might take water to level between tanks considering the dynamic head from the 375' long 1" pvc pipe connecting them with a number of twists and turns and a 2' elevation gain to get to tank #2? Thinking once the 3000 gal. tank fills (Tank #1) and well shuts off it will take some time for water to move to tank #2 to level off bringing down the level in tank #1 - and how I might set the wide swing float switch length in tank #1. Thanks again for any help! With a 1.5 GPM Dole valve or full flow 2 minutes and off for 30 minutes the fill rate will be so slow the tanks will fill at about the same time. The higher the fill rate the quicker the first tank would fill because of friction loss to the second tank.