Well recovery slower each year. Acid cleaning options?

Users who are viewing this thread

tico007

New Member
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
New Hampshire
Hello,
I live in southern NH. Have a 6 in well pipe, pump set at 135 ft. Assuming from the debris around the well and this area of NH it's drilled in granite. But I don't know for sure. I don't see any sand in the water. Just black black slime in toilet bowls. Black clumps that occasionally clog the washing machine, faucet screens, irrigation solenoids. Several years ago during a pump replacement a well company told us it was manganese and it was common for the area. Not much you can do about it. So we lived with it. In recent years we ran out of water a couple of times during irrigation. I backed off the minutes, changed to smaller heads, was better for a few more years. Until this year. We can no longer use the irrigation system because it takes so long for the well to recover it gets in the way of normal daily activities like laundry dishes, showers. Whats odd is I'm worried about the well going dry, but my neighbors on both sides with the same wells the same age approx 200 feet away can run water all day and night and have no problems. I asked they say they have no manganese issues.

I've been calling around asking for help from local well companies. Some type of rehabilitation. Hydrofracking. They either don't call back or they say they can't do it for one reason or another. The only option they gave me is deepening or drilling another well for a cost I can't afford. So I'm wondering if I can put something in the well myself to try to clean it. Researching I read about Nu-Well 100 which is 70% Sulfamic acid. Further research suggests Sulfamic acid is not very good at dissolving iron/manganese. Another was Unicid. Its part Sulfamic, part Oxalic acid, part citric acid. Acids blended together. Hard to acquire, no one locally sells it.

My question is can I create an acid brew of my own? Put that in the well for a day, hope for the best. Like for example, oxalic acid. Then neutralize with baking soda. Oxalic acid is decent at dissolving iron, manganese. I use that around the house for various projects like rust removing on autos, bleaching the deck wood, etc.
 

Attachments

  • 20200528_095342.jpg
    20200528_095342.jpg
    96.6 KB · Views: 323

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
If I were going to neutralize, I would be thinking sodium hydroxide (lye). It needs more care, and that would mean pre-diluting, and not overshooting. The reason I would be concerned about baking soda is the carbonates can be insoluble. Why add more precipitate.

I don't have an opinion on oxalic acid.

Nu-Well 120 is suggested for manganese and is based on phosphoric acid.

HCl looks interesting.
 
Last edited:

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,770
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
Are you higher or lower than your neighbors, or about the same in elevation? The water table could be changing and you may need a deeper well to keep up. Have they added houses around you? It has been dry this year, and at least from the paper, they indicated we're close to drought conditions here in NH.
 

tico007

New Member
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
New Hampshire
Are you higher or lower than your neighbors, or about the same in elevation? The water table could be changing and you may need a deeper well to keep up. Have they added houses around you? It has been dry this year, and at least from the paper, they indicated we're close to drought conditions here in NH.
The neighborhood is 1 - 2 acre lots on a street with a 15% grade. Im near the top. The two neighbors closest to me with high yield and no issues with recovery - one well is approx 30 ft higher in elevation. His pump is set at 160 ft. So the pump depth is similar to mine. On the other side the well is at the same elevation I'm not sure how deep the pump is. There are other wells in the neighborhood lower in elevation heading down the hill. One that is approx 50' lower and has water gushing out of the top when they take the cover off. And then there's one farther down maybe 60+' lower. They have problems. Not sure what but it's slow yield.
 

tico007

New Member
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
New Hampshire
Also we do have a concrete storm drain from the street exiting on our property within 40 feet of the well. Creates a marshy area in the general are of the well in the spring when the snow melts.
 

Boycedrilling

In the Trades
Messages
837
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Location
Royal City, WA
Acid treatment of a potable water well is not really a DIY homeowner type project.

Hell, most well drillers don’t know how to do it or want the potential liabilities.

You don’t want to be getting advice for this from “internet Experts”.
 

Boycedrilling

In the Trades
Messages
837
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Location
Royal City, WA
Call your homeowner’s Insurance agent. Tell him you have a problem with your well, you’ve been looking on the internet about dumping acid down your well to try to solve the problem.
Sone guys on the internet have given you some ideas.
Yes have neighbors that have wells with 100 yards or so.

see what your agent has to say
 

tico007

New Member
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
New Hampshire
Call your homeowner’s Insurance agent. Tell him you have a problem with your well, you’ve been looking on the internet about dumping acid down your well to try to solve the problem.
Sone guys on the internet have given you some ideas.
Yes have neighbors that have wells with 100 yards or so.

see what your agent has to say

The ins company says there's no policy for a dying or dead well. No other provider I called has any insurance for wells. Just that I could try claiming the well pump from lightning damage. But that's not my problem.

Anything I mentioned came from well professionals in my area that perform well rehabilitation. Any research came from well companies that mention the products they use for well rehabilitation. I used the sds for ingredients.

I'm familiar with the use of, handling, neutralizing, disposing of acids in my occupation. I'm familiar with opening, pulling the pump, disinfecting the well. I posted here hoping to hear from professionals in the industry willing to help me.
 
Last edited:

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
We meant no disrespect. Just a tough one to help with. Liability is an issue. I once told a guy to put a cup of chlorine in his well. I had to pay 50K to re-plumb his house because I didn't tell him that 10 cups would eat the copper pipe in the house. :eek:
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
We meant no disrespect. Just a tough one to help with. Liability is an issue. I once told a guy to put a cup of chlorine in his well. I had to pay 50K to re-plumb his house because I didn't tell him that 10 cups would eat the copper pipe in the house.
10 cups didn't hurt the copper pipes in house either. When I sanitize my well, I start with 32 cups (2 gallons), and add another gallon as that weakens. You can be sued for things that are not your fault. Loser-pays would help.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
10 cups of granular chlorine, and he didn't dissolve it, just dumped the powder down the well. Then of course after he filled the lines in the house he went on 2 weeks vacation to let it have time to work. I would Lol but it wasn't funny.

Loser pays would save this entire country. Even if it is not your fault, if you have insurance they will pay as it is cheaper than going to court, cause the loser doesn't have to pay those costs.
 

tico007

New Member
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
New Hampshire
We meant no disrespect. Just a tough one to help with. Liability is an issue. I once told a guy to put a cup of chlorine in his well. I had to pay 50K to re-plumb his house because I didn't tell him that 10 cups would eat the copper pipe in the house. :eek:
Thanks for explaining. Makes sense why I'm not getting straight answers from any professionals about well cleaning around here. My assumption was they are holding me hostage for a new well. Perhaps it's frivolous lawsuits and the town and it's regulations holding me hostage. It's painful to watch my neighbors water the lawn all day long and I'm worried about taking a shower tonight. I don't have 40K to drill a new well and I'm not sure when I will with work shut down right now. I miss my city water. I took it for granted.
We had our well disinfected once before with bleach. Is that similar but a little different than granular chlorine?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
We had our well disinfected once before with bleach. Is that similar but a little different than granular chlorine?
Can be functionally the same. With either liquid or granules, I would check the chlorine concentration with high-range test strips for the recirculating water.
 

Boycedrilling

In the Trades
Messages
837
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Location
Royal City, WA
What I was referring to was not whether you're homeowners policy would cover the cost of rehabilitating your well, but I was referring to the potential liabilities of placing acid into your well and the aquifer that your neighbors are also utilizing for their water.

Since your looking for advice from professionals, if you called me, here is what I would do;

1. Test your water for manganese and iron. Yes manganese is a good guess on your part based on black staining. If manganese levels are low, we may want to do some biological testing. Measure static and pumping water levels in your well.

2. remove the pump from the well inspect mineral scaling or biofouling on the drop pipe and pump. There is a possibility that the pump intake is so plugged up that water cannot enter the pump in sufficient quantities. I have seen this before. The water just can't get into the pump.

3. video inspect the borehole with a downhole video system and evaluate.

4. The next step would be brushing and stabbing of the well while simultaneously airlifting to mechanically remove as much mineral or biological fouling as possible from the well.

5. Revideo the well to evaluate the effectiveness of the mechanical cleaning.

6. This is finally the first point that we would even entertain the thought of an acid or chemical treatment of the well. If we go further, there could be another half dozen or more steps in the process.

We regularly treat high capacity irrigation wells. It's not just simply dump some acid in the well and pump it back out. The process that works on one well or problem might not be the correct process or treatment process for the next one. Is this inexpensive? No, we're looking at an average cost of around $15,000 for an irrigation well. It could be as low as $10,000 or could be up to $25,000. I have successfully rehabbed wells that produced more water than they did when they were new.
 

Boycedrilling

In the Trades
Messages
837
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Location
Royal City, WA
DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT, ever dump dry granular chlorine down your well. Dry chlorine can be used, but it has to be dissolved in water at the surface and then placed in the well. The same is true of any dry acid or other chemical treatment. It needs to be dissolved before being placed in the well and then preferably tremied into place in the well.
 

tico007

New Member
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
New Hampshire
Update. As the drought continued to worsen in my area so did the supply of water from our well. The well was barely recovering enough for everyone to take a shower after 3 hours. After spending $600 for 3 well contractors to come on site, tell me I needed a new well for $30,000 (to start), leave, I decided to give the NuWell products a try before conceding. Contacted Johnson Screens the manufacturer and Environmental Service Products the supplier which were excellent advising me on what and how much to use. Ordering took a week. Borrowed my neighbor's endless supply of well water for my house needs and for the flooding process. Dumped a 50lb tub of NuWell 110 granular down the casing with some water. Next was two gallons of NuWell 310. According to the information supplied by Johnson screens this combination is best suited for iron and manganese. Recommendation for the 310 was to mix on the surface but I chose to just dump it down with some water to make sure nothing was on the walls or the pump wiring. You could feel the acid churning if you put your hand on the well casing. Next morning I added approximately 20 gallons of water to flood the well and to push some of the acid brew out of the screen and out around the well.

48 hours had elapsed. I was worried if the pump would start. Or if it would get clogged with debris. I had a contingency plan for that but it was not required. It was an uneventful start up. I left the well wide open adding water from the neighbors well to flush it. At first the water was red and then it started to clean up. I remove other sources of water and ran the just the well for about 30 minutes until the pump stopped on a low water code. Let the well fill up for an hour and then tried it again. This time a green foam came out. Water pressure was better. Lasted a little longer this time. 3 more drain and fills, a test for ph, and I was back online.

That was a week ago. It's been great! I have 6 zones for my lawn. I run them at 7 minutes each with a 1-hour rest between. The well can handle that and all the showers and everything required for the house. So for my particular needs and problems this was a success.

Based on continual testing since the application this will not be a long-term solution. The manganese/ iron slime that hardens into a solid mass will return. I'm wondering about some type of chlorination mecanism which will slow or prevent recurrence. Is there such a device that can trickle add chlorine on a continual basis from the surface? Or should I just dump a little chlorine from time to time?
 

Attachments

  • 20200730_164439.jpg
    20200730_164439.jpg
    116.8 KB · Views: 264
  • 20200728_180352.jpg
    20200728_180352.jpg
    78.8 KB · Views: 245

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Congratulations.
Is there such a device that can trickle add chlorine on a continual basis from the surface? Or should I just dump a little chlorine from time to time?
There are devices, including ones that drop pellets periodically. However with a bottom feeding well, that chlorine will not get to the well screen area, I don't think.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing write-up for well and plumbing. One key item is the flooding volume driving the treatment into the screen and nearby aquifer area.
 

tico007

New Member
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
New Hampshire
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks