90 degree long sweep or 60 degree elbow

[Dohc]

I am transitioning a 1-1/2" PVC bathroom sink drain from vertical to horizontal with a 1-1/2" PVC 90 degree long sweep. Then the next elbow I could use another 90 degree long sweep OR a 60 degree. Which option would be better?

Please see photos...

Thank you

 

[Jeff H Young]

90 is better and its legal a 60 can only be installed at a true vertical because it has too little sweep

 

[Sponsor]

 

[hj]

And what "sage" told you that? That means that for 65 years I was using the 60 improperly and NO INSPECTOR ever turned it down.

 

[Sylvan]

The less of an angle the better the flow and easier to rod (snake)

 

[Jeff H Young]

And what "sage" told you that? That means that for 65 years I was using the 60 improperly and NO INSPECTOR ever turned it down.

Section 405 paragraph c and d 1991 edition 60 degree fittings can only be used in a true vertical position. My understanding was the sweep is not equivalent to that of a long sweep 90. Cant remember the Sage that taught me that. And I've seen a whole lot of slop get approved by inspectors. 65 years in trade is awesome doesn't make you a know it all necessarily , but much respect for your experience I wouldn't want to steer someone wrong with misinformation. Let me know any of you how I'm wrong just interpreting ?

 

[Jeff H Young]

2015 UPC a little more clear 706.3 and 706.4 Let me know guys I just cant see how it could be legal 5th bends and 6ths on their sides? Picture sure looks wrong to me even though its less degrees.

 

[Jeff H Young]

To the OP if you used a spigot 45 and a 22.5 degree fitting you would likely get desired results. Hope others chime in and correct me and prove me wrong, or agree The code appears undisputable to me . If someone can read those 2015 UPC codes and explain it to me I'd appreciate it.

 

[Plumbs]

I don't see how you can use a regular dwv 90 horizontally as well as a regular dwv 45 horizontally but a 60 wouldn't be allowed. Maybe your area has different rules but either option is approved for above ground here.
To the op, I'd go with the 60 since it would be slightly easier to snake if you ever need to.

 

[Sylvan]

TABLE 706.3 FITTINGS FOR CHANGE IN DIRECTION

TYPE OF FITTING
PATTERN CHANGE IN DIRECTION
Horizontal to
vertical Vertical to
horizontal Horizontal to
horizontal
Sixteenth bend X X X
Eighth bend X X X
Sixth bend X X X
Quarter bend X Xa Xa
Short sweep X Xa,b Xa
Long sweep X X X
Sanitary tee Xc 3/4 3/4
Wye X X X
Combination wye and
eighth bend X X X

For SI: 1 inch = 25.4 mm.
a. The fittings shall only be permitted for a 2-inch or smaller fixture drain.
b. Three inches or larger.
c. For a limitation on double sanitary tees, see Section 706.3.

 

[Sylvan]

If the maximum allowed angle is 90 degrees 1/4 bend

Why would a lesser angle not be approved?

1/32 bends =11.25

1/16 bend =22.5

1/8 bend = 45

1/4 Bend = 90 deg

Common sense would dictate the less of an angle less friction loss and smoother flow

 

[Reach4]

Wisconsin has their own code. http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/cod...and_buildings_and_environment/380_387/382.pdf

Page 30 (as printed on the sheets) has information. The minimum radius of the fitting is important for horizontal to horizontal.

https://www.co.lincoln.wa.us/land-s.../08/Top-10-plumbing-mistakes-handout-4-09.pdf
https://up.codes/s/changes-in-direction-of-drainage-flow

UPC 706.3 Horizontal to Horizontal. Horizontal drainage lines connecting with other horizontal drainage lines shall enter through 45 degree (0.79 rad) wye branches, combination wye and one-eighth bend branches, or other approved fittings of equivalent sweep.​

That does not explicitly refer to 1/6 bend (60 degrees).

IPC https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/ipc-2015/chapter/7/sanitary-drainage#7 TABLE 706.3 FITTINGS FOR CHANGE IN DIRECTION has no problem with 1/6 bend (60 degrees).

 

[Jeff H Young]

If the maximum allowed angle is 90 degrees 1/4 bend

Why would a lesser angle not be approved?

1/32 bends =11.25

1/16 bend =22.5

1/8 bend = 45

1/4 Bend = 90 deg

Common sense would dictate the less of an angle less friction loss and smoother flow

Thanks sylvan Now maybe I got it all wrong 3 times you've brought up that less degrees is better common sense I agree but not the topic. but its not the degrees of change its the amount of sweep. A 90 is a 90 no mater what but you cant use a santee on its side instead of a combi even though they are both 90 degree. better would be no fittings or change of direction but again not the topic.
This is the first I've tried to find out the truth in this matter I did see a section in code book that said a 60 degree offset can only be used in a true vertical position. Looks like your chart from another post says that a 60 can be installed any position? I guess I've been wrong a long time, kinda hard when you find out what you thought fact is not so . No problem Id rather know I'm wrong than not know. Thanks for letting me know!
I'm on here to learn and share some experience didn't just enter this trade and don't claim to always be right I've been fed a lot of poor info by people with more experience, and been corrected by those with less, and learned you cant believe a lot of what people tell you whether tradesmen or inspectors , at same time I've met and worked with some that were very good.
The use of 60s doesn't come up that much as I use hundreds of 90s and 45s for every 60 degree fitting and at least dozens of 22.5s.
Reach 4 I see your chart shows the radii I'm guessing a 60 of 2 inch has a 3 1/4 min radii?
Thanks Guys!

 

[Reach4]

Reach 4 I see your chart shows the radii Im guessing a 60 of 2 inch has a 3 1/4 min radii?

Hmm. If I had a 60, I would try swinging a compass.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Empire-Compass-Scriber-27031/202035330

 

[Sylvan]

If an inspector was really good they would be in business making a fortune

Those that can do DO and those who cant become inspectors or teachers

It helped me a lot long before there was no hub to use galvanized and cast iron fittings we had zero play in the pipes as they have today so we made the best of the fittings available

I am working for a law firm now as they are suing a 100+ year old hotel in Manhattan that has a Durham system original galvanized 8" waste pipe

 

[Jeff H Young]

Hmm. If I had a 60, I would try swinging a compass.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Empire-Compass-Scriber-27031/202035330

Thanks Reach 4 sometime I might check on charlotte pipe or another's mfg of fittings site technical data.

 

[wwhitney]

Per Charlotte Plastic Pipe catalog:

Regular 1-1/2" quarter bend = 1-3/4" radius
Long Turn 1-1/2" quarter bend = 2-3/4" radius
1-1/2" sixth bend = sqrt(3)" radius = ~1-3/4" radius
1-1/2" eighth bend = 1-1/8" / tan(22.5 deg) radius = ~2-3/4" radius

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

Per Charlotte Plastic Pipe catalog:

Regular 1-1/2" quarter bend = 1-3/4" radius
Long Turn 1-1/2" quarter bend = 2-3/4" radius
1-1/2" sixth bend = sqrt(3)" radius = ~1-3/4" radius
1-1/2" eighth bend = 1-1/8" / tan(22.5 deg) radius = ~2-3/4" radius

Cheers, Wayne

Thanks Wayne Don't have a fitting book handy. an 1-1/2 long sweep and 45 have the same radius 2 3/4 inch which is the minimum and a 60 is much tighter and is not an approved fitting of equivalent sweep. been my point all along that a 60 degree fitting is not of approved sweep. Not good in Wisconsin or UPC from what I see except Sylvan provided something that had 3 yes on it meaning a 60 can be used anywhere.
As reach said 706.3 a 60 degree fitting is not explicitly refereed to but it does explicitly refer to equivalent sweep of 1/8 bends and long sweeps and we know a 60 isn't equivalent and neither is a vent 90 or 1/4 bend that's why we don't use those horizontal on the side either. Sorry for beating a dead horse I don't mind being wrong just want it proven and the fact that some people or many have been doing it this way for years doesn't make me believe its right or not but I most certainly want to know. the answer to this question I think is a fact one way or another. I've believed this for decades but right or wrong I want to know.

 

[JohnnyCom]

NYC code Sylvan quoted above is based on IPC. Reach quoted UPC. Confusingly, both codes share the same section number for this topic. Looks to (non-plumber) me like the horizontal 60 is allowed in IPC but not UPC.

 

[Dohc]

Thank you everyone for the in-depth information. I ended up using two 90 degree sweeps, although it appears I would have had options. Thanks for the better understanding!