Anaconda 85 Redbrass Pipe circa 1920s

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DIYorBust

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I've encountered some of this on a project. I initially thought it was copper, but a section of pipe reads "Anaconda 85 Redbrass". The pipe is threaded and the fittings appear to be a type of brass. It's generally performing ok, although one section appears to have been repaired with a galvanized fitting, and that is leaking. The pipe appears to be generally performing well. In other areas,the pipe has been replaced by regular copper. Is there any concern with allowing this pipe to remain? Can I cut out the fitting and sweat in a section of copper, or should I try to replace the coupling with brass?

Thank you!

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Sylvan

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Red brass was used prior to WW 2 to conserve copper, they used Yellow brass 40 % Zinc 60% copper as opposed to Red Brass 85% copper 15% zinc

Over the decades yellow brass failed due to dezincification and the piping because brittle

Red brass can least well over 100 years .

To avoid threading brass I used to use TP copper fittings and brazed to brass pipe but it became cost prohibitive

To attach red brass to copper easiest way is to cut the brass threads off clean the bare brass pipe and buy a Copper x TP adapter and either braze it oo use lead free solder

TP copper fitting you can make by buying a copper x F adapter remove the female threads inside the adapter and it will easily fit over brass pipe

OR you can order it from almost any NYC plumbing supply
 

DIYorBust

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Thanks a bunch sylvan. I'm going to tackle this tonight or tomorrow since we're basically on lockdown here. I just want to say, what's going on with this virus situation is scary and it's horrible. At least working on the pipes will keep me away from the news for a while.

So anyway...is there any reason to use the tp fitting instead of a copper coupling? Thanks.
 

Sylvan

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I have not worked in 10 days . . MY employees have me on lock down and although my office is a cross the street from my house I have been confined as I am over 70. They went food shopping for me took care of all the calls that came in

I am getting cabin fever as all this started 3 blocks from my house SAR school in Riverdale the Bronx


The reason for the TP adapter is just in case the threads do break off you have another option that then trying to rethread the pipe
 
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DIYorBust

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Ok so things seem to be settling into an uncomfortable lull around here. I'm considering getting back to work on this project, but I want to be sure I can finish it in case I can't get parts or help. Would a tool like this be suitable for cutting threads into the red brass?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-2-in-OO-R-NPT-Right-Hand-14-TPI-Die-Head-36890R/100155546

Is the softness of the metal a concern? I've never had to cut threads in something other than iron or steel. What do you use for cutting oil?

The TP adapter would address this, but I haven't been able to get my hands on one yet, and I don't know much about brazing, and I'm seeing the potential that I may need to do this again. There is a union downstream that sweats a little. Once I restore the pressure by making this repair, I'm concerned it will leak and the union is in a location where I'm not too excited about using a torch. I think it might worth the 100 bucks to have this option, and I can return the tools if I don't break any threads. I also considered working back to the next good fitting, but there's all sorts of old tees and valves along the way and I could wind up making a real lot of work for myself. What do you think?

Thanks again.
 

Reach4

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I looked up that TP = Brass Threadless Pipe.
I suspect I was not the only one reading the thread that wondered about that.
 

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That is what you would need to thread the brass, but do you mean you do NOT have such a tool? That used to be about the first fool a plumber had to buy in order to do anything.
 

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Thanks for that hj, I feel a lot better now. I don't have too much reason to thread pipe. Most residential gas pipe at this location is done in soft copper with flare fittings, and copper or pex is used for water. Any thoughts on the cutting fluid? I'm thinking food grade mineral oil, or olive oil from the kitchen.
 

Sylvan

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Actually TP is Thread less Copper and has the same outside wall thickness as IPS .

TP cannot be threaded as it is thinner wall than pipe and much heavier then even type K copper tubing

I still have Stanley G Flagg Flow fitting which we used to braze to the copper which cost a fortune to buy $86.00 for 1" adapter TP x M or F

It is NOT brass it is 99% copper
 

DIYorBust

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So TP has the same OD as iron pipe or brass pipe, which is why the tp adapter could work to join red brass to type L copper, but TP pipe itself cannot be threaded because it is too thin. But the TP adapter has not been in stock, and requires brazing so I guess I'll be crossing my fingers that the threads are still good or I will be rethreading. Anaconda claimed 85 red brass offered the most corrosion resistance, so I'll be finding out if that is true. Still gotta give credit to the builder, it has held up a lot better than galvanized would have.
 

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So TP has the same OD as iron pipe or brass pipe, which is why the tp adapter could work to join red brass to type L copper, but TP pipe itself cannot be threaded because it is too thin. But the TP adapter has not been in stock, and requires brazing so I guess I'll be crossing my fingers that the threads are still good or I will be rethreading. Anaconda claimed 85 red brass offered the most corrosion resistance, so I'll be finding out if that is true. Still gotta give credit to the builder, it has held up a lot better than galvanized would have.


The builder was great and you hit the nail on the head

"So TP has the same OD as iron pipe or brass pipe, which is why the tp adapter could work to join red brass to type L copper, but TP pipe itself cannot be threaded because it is too thin."

The copper adapter is much thinner then Flagg flow adapters so you can solder the adapter just heat the pipe first then the fitting . You must clean the brass pipe shinning and remove any burrs

There are some homes that have galvanized over 100 years old that the only failures they have is the connection to the brass valves


A lot has to do with the water supply PH on the longevity of the Ferrous metal piping
 

DIYorBust

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Well I got it done. Was a real pain to get that coupling off. First it snapped in half, but still hung on to the threads. The brass pipe is much softer than steel and i was afrai a bigger wrench might bend the pipe or break off the threads, so I took a hacksaw and sawed the fitting parallel to the pipe so as not to approach the threads. After removing enough material, I was able to turn the coupling, and the threads were not damaged.

The copper adapter basically is maxed out on the threads, but it does not leak. If it ever does though I'd probably need to rethread or go to the next fitting which is a tee, so I'll keep an eye out for some tp adapters as that could really save me a headache one day.

Before I could started, the isolation valve upstream broke in the closed position, so I basically got to this project twice. Fun night. At least the thread cutting tool can go back to home depot.

Thanks so much for the help, I'm glad I had the info to approach this the right way.
 

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By the way a few years ago I ordered 4- boilers and 4- 75 gallon water heaters from a local plumbing supply in the Bronx

After I saw how much they were charging I called AF supply in Brooklyn and found out they were supplying the supply house I normally used

So | rather then getting into an argument I ordered the same boilers and water heaters and had AF deliver them to the supply house I usually bought from

When my normal supply called asking what gives I said I always bought from you guys and then I decided to check the prices and found AF supply was 40% LESS on each of the 75 gallon water heaters and over 30% less on each boiler

After a long pause the owner said I do understand no problem . I still buy from my original supplier as they are less then a 1/2 mile away but when I have multi boilers and or water heaters I buy from AF

Regarding the flu virus going around here is a picture to waken people up
 

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DIYorBust

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Here a picture of the new joint and the old coupling. A previous repair had inserted a section of copper and a Male adapter, so I was able to sweat the other end. I also see that the price of red brass pipe is insane. A 6 ft section on zoro is 100 bucks. I guess the economic of it were different way back when.

20200330_170009.jpg

20200330_170009.jpg

20200330_165946.jpg
 

Sylvan

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OUTSTANDING job

By the way the LIST price for a 1/2" x 6" brass nipple (domestic) was over $60.00 and it was always expensice and actually came down in price

I have a basement full of red brass fititngs and some pipe which a few years ago I sold for scrap metal as the price was really high

The job you did I charge over $800.00 as people are paying for the knowledge as not many out of NYC plumbers ever heard of TP adpaters

Brass has always been one of the most expensive potable water piping materials .

If you deal with a local plumbign supply they may sell 1/2 brass cheap as it is not used because of Type L copper is cheaper and brass s dead stock in most cases . I used to us Brass pipe and TP Fittings not TP copper and this should last well over 200 years

If you think Red Brass is Expensive look up 4" Duriron (Acid waste) as I had to use it for the chemistry department at NYU and Pryex piping for sme other chemical waste
 
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