Shower valve/drop ear depth problem

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Plumb Sob

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Ello,

I am installing one of those waterfall showers for someone.
When i install the valve at the prescribed depth and run the pipe vertically for the drop ear the
depth of the ear is too far recessed based on what i can tell from the Chinglish instructions.
If i tilt the pipe slightly forward then the arm that holds the head bends down and is not level.
I bent the pipe out then back to plumb to get the proper depth but then the pipe is proud of the studs. :mad:

The instructions call for a drop ear elbow and as a noob plumber i didn't know there were other options.
I am now finding out there are straight 1/2 sweat to 1/2 threaded things with drop ears.
This would be perfect because now we have changed to the niche being directly above the valve and
i elbowed in a c-shape around the niche so now i could come out level at the top and cut the pipe to the prescribed depth
drilling through the blocking that holds the ear.

But i can't find them at box stores and no plumbing stores are open tomorrow and i got to get the walls
closed up asap.

I did see an adapter thing that has 1/2 male threads to 1/2 female things which could work with the
90 elbow drop ear i have now. I would just recess the elbow ear enough so the pipe is within the wall
and the length of the adapter i think would get me to the right depth in relation to the finished tile wall.

Is that acceptable?

Thanks for reading.
 

Mliu

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Photos and/or drawings (preferably both) would help immensely in these types of posts, especially when you're using obscure technical terms like "things."

It's unclear why you need the "adapter thing that has 1/2 male threads to 1/2 female things."
 

Plumb Sob

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Yeah, sorry, not real familiar with the terms.

One of these~https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...s-coupling/0121988/p-1444442666100-c-9432.htm

I need it because the shower head instructions call for the drop ear elbow to be recessed from the finished tiled wall .2 inches which is roughly 3/16.

To get the elbow 3/16 from the finished wall the pipe is proud of the studs by about 1/4 of an inch.

If i used one of those male female adapter couplings i could extend the drop ear and thereby move the pipe back into the stud bay.

Ideally i would like a drop ear that is straight https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...ar-adapter/b029750/p-1444449104308-c-8565.htm rather than an elbow so i can set the depth with no worries of a vertical pipe
being proud of the walls and interfering with the wall board installation but don't know where to find one tomorrow.

Cheers
 

Plumb Sob

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Maybe this stock photo can help elucidat

pRMrI.png


It looks like the face of the fitting is even or slightly recessed from the plane of the studs.
This is where the fitting would be for me too if i went plumb straight up from the valve with the valve installed
at the prescribed depth relative to the finished wall.

But the instructions call for the face of that fitting, where the threads begin, to be 3/16 from the finished wall which is about 12/16 proud of
the stud plane leaving the pipe about 4/16 proud of the stud plane.
I just need to install the drop elbow about like in this picture but then extend the threads so the shower head arm can engage with them.

If i had the straight drop ear adapted i would not have to worry about the vertical pipe and could have the threads where i need them without
an extension.
 

Mliu

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Are the fixture instructions online for us to read? I'm trying to imagine how the face of that fitting can be 3/16" from the finished face of the wall since no wall surface is that thin.

How is this wall to be constructed?
 
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Mliu

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I did see an adapter thing that has 1/2 male threads to 1/2 female things which could work with the
90 elbow drop ear i have now. I would just recess the elbow ear enough so the pipe is within the wall
and the length of the adapter i think would get me to the right depth in relation to the finished tile wall.

Is that acceptable?
The problem with this idea is, if in the future someone tries unscrewing the arm to replace it, they could inadvertently unscrew that adapter from the drop ear elbow creating a leak inside the wall.

Being able to remove and replace the arm is the very reason for having the drop ear elbow.
 

Plumb Sob

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Okay, here's a picture of the actual shower arm~

61iPZwAabCL._SL1001_.jpg


That threaded part screws into the drop ear and then the arm slides on to it flush with the finished wall.
So if the ear is too far back into the wall the threads won't engage.
Those typical shower head arms ( https://images.homedepot-static.com...-glacier-bay-shower-arms-3075-504-64_1000.jpg ) can go into the
wall so the drop ear can be sufficiently recessed so that the pipe running vertical to it is not proud of the studs.
But i have to have the drop ear real close to the finished wall to get those threads into it.
I think the threaded portion on that arm is about 3/4 of an inch long.

I could not find a manual but here is what looks like a picture from a manual though this was not in my manual~

71GTD8rU72L.jpg


It says before installing tile and i think that also means before installing any substrate.
I think it shows for the drop ear to be .4 inches proud of the studs. (it looks like their drop ear is asymmetrical with the threaded leg longer than the sweated one)
The backer is .5 inches and the tile is .25 inches plus mortar and waterproofing membrane and i am guessing
it will be 7/8 to 1 inch thick which would make the drop ear recessed .6 inches (but my manual said .2 from finished wall).
The would leave .4 inches of thread engagement.
It's a very large waterfall shower head.

Maybe i could cut the tile and backer board so that the square part of the arm can be recessed a little too to get full thread engagement?

Moonstruck is a favorite of mine.
 

Mliu

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Maybe i could cut the tile and backer board so that the square part of the arm can be recessed a little too to get full thread engagement?
You mentioned sliding the arm onto the threaded part. But the threaded part and the square part look like they are machined from a single piece of metal. If so, you wouldn't be able to screw a square part into a square recess in your tile.
 

Mliu

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In any case, it seems to me the solution is a sweat x sweat drop ear elbow and a copper sweat x FIP adapter with a short piece of copper pipe between them.

bronze-everbilt-bronze-fittings-c7075lfhd12-64_1000.jpg
copper-everbilt-copper-fittings-c603hd12-64_1000.jpg


If you need them closer, use a "street" female threaded adapter (Ftg x FIP).

copper-everbilt-copper-fittings-c6032hd12-64_1000.jpg
 
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Plumb Sob

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You mentioned sliding the arm onto the threaded part. But the threaded part and the square part look like they are machined from a single piece of metal. If so, you wouldn't be able to screw a square part into a square recess in your tile.

The threaded part is separate from the arm. It's what i would call a fitting.
Half of it is threaded and the other half is a cylinder with some rubber gaskets around it that the arm pushes onto and then a couple of set screws hold
it in place.
This is the only diagram i could find, it's for the handheld sprayer but it looks the same thing pretty much~

https://www.srsunriseshower.com/images/thumbnails/1500/1500/detailed/1/81xT2GUzyDL._SL1500_.jpg

If they just made the threaded portion longer.

Here is the fixture on Amazon~ https://www.amazon.com/SR-SUN-RISE-SRSH-F5043-Bathroom/dp/B014SWZG5O?th=1 If you look at the 4th review by Maryann you will see a pic of it installed with cpvc.
It's a small pic but you can see the blocking for the drop ear is almost flush with the studs. I have no idea how she
attached backer board or lath over the pipe which must be protruding past the studs.


Thank you for taking the time to help
 

Plumb Sob

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In any case, it seems to me the solution is a sweat x sweat drop ear elbow and a copper sweat x FIP adapter with a short piece of copper pipe between them.

bronze-everbilt-bronze-fittings-c7075lfhd12-64_1000.jpg
copper-everbilt-copper-fittings-c603hd12-64_1000.jpg


If you need them closer, use a "street" female threaded adapter (Ftg x FIP).

copper-everbilt-copper-fittings-c6032hd12-64_1000.jpg


T82977_WP.JPG

Perfecto!

Thanks.
 

Mike3150

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Ello,

I am installing one of those waterfall showers for someone.
When i install the valve at the prescribed depth and run the pipe vertically for the drop ear the
depth of the ear is too far recessed based on what i can tell from the Chinglish instructions.
If i tilt the pipe slightly forward then the arm that holds the head bends down and is not level.
I bent the pipe out then back to plumb to get the proper depth but then the pipe is proud of the studs. :mad:

The instructions call for a drop ear elbow and as a noob plumber i didn't know there were other options.
I am now finding out there are straight 1/2 sweat to 1/2 threaded things with drop ears.
This would be perfect because now we have changed to the niche being directly above the valve and
i elbowed in a c-shape around the niche so now i could come out level at the top and cut the pipe to the prescribed depth
drilling through the blocking that holds the ear.

But i can't find them at box stores and no plumbing stores are open tomorrow and i got to get the walls
closed up asap.

I did see an adapter thing that has 1/2 male threads to 1/2 female things which could work with the
90 elbow drop ear i have now. I would just recess the elbow ear enough so the pipe is within the wall
and the length of the adapter i think would get me to the right depth in relation to the finished tile wall.

Is that acceptable?

Thanks for reading.
Hello sir,

I am installing a SR Sun just like yours and I have tile installed. I am having the same issue with the short threads. I am having trouble following along with what your solution was. Can you assist?
 

Mike3150

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Hello sir. I am installing the same shower head with tile and I'm having the same issue with shirt threads. I am having trouble following what your solution was. Can you assist?
 

rwbyington

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Another Solution: I found this thread because I am installing the same shower and had same question. Instead of having a sweat joint I'm using one of these (a 1/2 nipple extension). I like the fact you can wrench on it a little harder and it will only tighten the connection, I can remove in future if needed, and it is likely a more time effective solution.

1681060619551.png
AC-275.jpg
 

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Jeff H Young

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Another Solution: I found this thread because I am installing the same shower and had same question. Instead of having a sweat joint I'm using one of these (a 1/2 nipple extension). I like the fact you can wrench on it a little harder and it will only tighten the connection, I can remove in future if needed, and it is likely a more time effective solution.

View attachment 91766View attachment 91764
I put my drop ear female thread deep in wall and stub out with a temporary nipple dial in the final length later if you are just a litlle bit off when you go to set fininh how will you fix it?
 
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