New kitchen sink is deeper, now trap is too high

[Keith Wollaver]

I attached a picture below of the actual set up. The waste line comes in from the rear wall under the sink and connects to a 2" p trap that has a compression fitting at that end and connects to a tail piece that has been reduced to 1.5" with a reducer. The tailpiece is not a problem, but as you can see the dishwasher branch is out of place unless the p trap can be lowered. I have not yet found a solution at the stores. The sink is located in a peninsula counter and the waste drain runs horizontally within the wall. I considered opening the rear outside wall as it is easy access and lowering the waste line that runs into the cabinet, but I do not know if that works knowing that the waste water would then have to run up several inches to match with the original location of the waste drain inside the peninsula wall. What would you suggest? Thanks. Keith in AZ

 

[wwhitney]

The simplest solution would be to get a shorter strainer basket (the grey plastic part on the bottom of the sink) or a dishwasher tail piece with the side inlet higher up. Brasscraft 829-013 dishwasher tail piece looks like it has a higher side inlet, although it is hard to tell just from web images.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Keith Wollaver]

The simplest solution would be to get a shorter strainer basket (the grey plastic part on the bottom of the sink) or a dishwasher tail piece with the side inlet higher up. Brasscraft 829-013 dishwasher tail piece looks like it has a higher side inlet, although it is hard to tell just from web images.

Cheers, Wayne

I looked for one already with no results. I agree that could be the easiest fix if one exists.

 

[wwhitney]

Here is one manufacturer's cad drawings: https://www.keeneymfg.com/cad_drawings/7-Branch-Tailpiece

Most of their plastic tail pieces show a drop of 2-1/2" or 2-5/8" from the top of the tail piece to the center of the inlet.

This plastic tail piece shows a drop of 2.09": https://www.keeneymfg.com/system/cad_drawings/961/original/31-8WRUK.pdf

And this brass tail piece shows a drop of only 1-1/2": https://www.keeneymfg.com/system/cad_drawings/1137/original/47RBBN.pdf

While this brass tail piece shows a drop of only 1-1/4": https://www.keeneymfg.com/system/cad_drawings/55/original/48sn.PDF

So there are options out there.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Mliu]

I'm not a fan of plastic strainer baskets (they look cheap and ugly inside the sink). So regardless of your clearance issues, I'd replace that with a nice stainless steel basket. And that alone will probably gain you an inch of vertical clearance.

Here are a few on Amazon. As you can see, there are all considerably more shallow than the plastic basket you have:

Elkay D1125, ~$20


Kone DS-01, ~$15



Everflow 7156, ~$5

 

[Keith Wollaver]

I'm not a fan of plastic strainer baskets (they look cheap and ugly inside the sink). So regardless of your clearance issues, I'd replace that with a nice stainless steel basket. And that alone will probably gain you an inch of vertical clearance.

Here are a few on Amazon. As you can see, there are all considerably more shallow than the plastic basket you have:

Elkay D1125, ~$20


Kone DS-01, ~$15



Everflow 7156, ~$5

 

[Keith Wollaver]

The underside cup is plastic while the sink side is stainless. Home Depot and Lowes do not have a more shallow strainer basket assy, so thanks for the suggestions that you provided. I will measure and hope for the best.

 

[Mliu]

The underside cup is plastic while the sink side is stainless.

Those strainers are typically all plastic with either a chrome plating or a thin stainless "foil" laminated onto the surface. They are cheap and they do not last long.

Home Depot and Lowes do not have a more shallow strainer basket assy, so thanks for the suggestions that you provided.

There's much more available in the world than just what's on the shelf at the local big box store. Besides the options from Amazon, Home Depot also sells these online. You can order them on their web site and have them shipped to the store for free. As long as you don't buy a deep basket strainer assembly, you should be fine in terms of gaining additional vertical clearance for your trap. Just make sure the diameter of your sink's drain opening is 3.5" to 4" (which is standard in the US).

 

[WorthFlorida]

Same issue here I answered a while back. There are tailpieces that thread right the basket with a dishwasher hose connection to give you more room to raise the trap arm.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....asher-in-to-the-drain-line.83761/#post-603569

Short Tailpiece
https://www.amazon.com/Master-Plumb...ocphy=9053092&hvtargid=pla-313308507326&psc=1

 

[Keith Wollaver]

Here is one manufacturer's cad drawings: https://www.keeneymfg.com/cad_drawings/7-Branch-Tailpiece

Most of their plastic tail pieces show a drop of 2-1/2" or 2-5/8" from the top of the tail piece to the center of the inlet.

This plastic tail piece shows a drop of 2.09": https://www.keeneymfg.com/system/cad_drawings/961/original/31-8WRUK.pdf

And this brass tail piece shows a drop of only 1-1/2": https://www.keeneymfg.com/system/cad_drawings/1137/original/47RBBN.pdf

While this brass tail piece shows a drop of only 1-1/4": https://www.keeneymfg.com/system/cad_drawings/55/original/48sn.PDF

So there are options out there.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Keith Wollaver]

A trip to Hughes Plumbing Supply offered the winning solution. I cut the 2" waste line, glued a coupler and reducer to 1 1/2" new p trap that has a greater drop that gave me the distance to connect the tailpiece.

Here is one manufacturer's cad drawings: https://www.keeneymfg.com/cad_drawings/7-Branch-Tailpiece

Most of their plastic tail pieces show a drop of 2-1/2" or 2-5/8" from the top of the tail piece to the center of the inlet.

This plastic tail piece shows a drop of 2.09": https://www.keeneymfg.com/system/cad_drawings/961/original/31-8WRUK.pdf

And this brass tail piece shows a drop of only 1-1/2": https://www.keeneymfg.com/system/cad_drawings/1137/original/47RBBN.pdf

While this brass tail piece shows a drop of only 1-1/4": https://www.keeneymfg.com/system/cad_drawings/55/original/48sn.PDF

So there are options out there.

Cheers, Wayne

For 7 bucks in parts I did the following after a visit to Hughes Plumbing Supply in Scottsdale. Katie had the best solution and it came together quickly for me. I cut the 2" waste line, glued a 2" coupler, then glued a reducer that took the size down to 1 1/2" to which I attached a new 1 1/2" trap that has a deeper drop than the original 2" trap. Now I just trimmed the tailpiece and I am back in business.

 

[Keith Wollaver]

Those strainers are typically all plastic with either a chrome plating or a thin stainless "foil" laminated onto the surface. They are cheap and they do not last long.


There's much more available in the world than just what's on the shelf at the local big box store. Besides the options from Amazon, Home Depot also sells these online. You can order them on their web site and have them shipped to the store for free. As long as you don't buy a deep basket strainer assembly, you should be fine in terms of gaining additional vertical clearance for your trap. Just make sure the diameter of your sink's drain opening is 3.5" to 4" (which is standard in the US).

The cup and strainer are two separate pieces with the strainer being metal, not filmed plastic. Good call to make sure my parts have quality. The setup came with the beautiful 16 gauge ss sink. Here is the remedy that I used: For 7 bucks in parts I did the following after a visit to Hughes Plumbing Supply in Scottsdale. Katie had the best solution and it came together quickly for me. I cut the 2" waste line, glued a 2" coupler, then glued a reducer that took the size down to 1 1/2" to which I attached a new 1 1/2" trap that has a deeper drop than the original 2" trap. Now I just trimmed the tailpiece and I am back in business.

 

[Mliu]

When I was referring to the "strainer" being cheap, I meant the entire strainer basket drain assembly. A plastic drain "cup" is not quality.

You installed the lower half of your P-trap backward: the long side with the enlarged diameter is made to accept the tailpiece of the drain; the short side connects to the drainpipe going into the wall. That's why you got so much extra vertical clearance. It also means you've made your regular P-trap into a "deep trap."

Code requires the trap seal depth to be 2" minimum to 4" maximum. Your's looks like it exceeds 4". This is bad because with a trap deeper than 4", the water flow from the sink won't be able to scour debris out of the bottom of the trap.

And since the tailpiece of your drain is barely inside the slip joint, if your drain gets bumped, it could separate at that connection.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Just replacing the sink basket as recommended will take care of the trap being too tall and installed backwards. A metal tailpiece doesn’t tighten up very much with plastic slip joints and it will blow out when you are not home while the dishwasher is running. A sink basket replacement is very easy to do. Just use stainless plumbers putty instead of silicone as sometimes read in installation instructions.

 

[hj]

IF you don't find a shorter basket strainer in HD or Lowes, you are NOT LOOKING in the right place, because they have several different models.

 

[Keith Wollaver]

Same issue here I answered a while back. There are tailpieces that thread right the basket with a washing machine hose connection to give you more room to raise the trap arm.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....asher-in-to-the-drain-line.83761/#post-603569

Short Tailpiece
https://www.amazon.com/Master-Plumb...ocphy=9053092&hvtargid=pla-313308507326&psc=1

My solutiom

When I was referring to the "strainer" being cheap, I meant the entire strainer basket drain assembly. A plastic drain "cup" is not quality.

You installed the lower half of your P-trap backward: the long side with the enlarged diameter is made to accept the tailpiece of the drain; the short side connects to the drainpipe going into the wall. That's why you got so much extra vertical clearance. It also means you've made your regular P-trap into a "deep trap."

Code requires the trap seal depth to be 2" minimum to 4" maximum. Your's looks like it exceeds 4". This is bad because with a trap deeper than 4", the water flow from the sink won't be able to scour debris out of the bottom of the trap.

And since the tailpiece of your drain is barely inside the slip joint, if your drain gets bumped, it could separate at that connection.

I am grateful for your response, so I will disassemble, reassemble. and see if I am still in better shape. I am sure I misunderstood my instructions. The drain runs as quick as ever the way it is. Is the trap seal the spot where the pipes are actually joined together?

 

[Reach4]

Your p-trap may be a little deep. If you cut the tailpiece, and that is a reversible trap, you could do this:

https://www.hammerpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/trap-2-label.png

 

[Mliu]

The drain runs as quick as ever the way it is. Is the trap seal the spot where the pipes are actually joined together?

It doesn't matter how fast the drain appears to run. If the trap is too deep, the flow of water won't be able to pick up sediment at the bottom of the trap and lift it up to the height of the trap arm (which connected to the drain pipe).

See the following image for the depth of the trap seal:

 

[Keith Wollaver]

Your p-trap may be a little deep. If you cut the tailpiece, and that is a reversible trap, you could do this:
View attachment 58850


https://www.hammerpedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/trap-2-label.png

Thanks. From your previous post that is the exact picture I had in mind. Nice job with the photoshopped view. You have skills!