Large House Filtration Sediment Systems - Do they work well?

[Skoby]

I put this post in the water softener forum because the bigger companies sell the sediment filtration systems also. I have a lot of sediment in my water. I have to clear my sediment spin down filter almost daily. (I may need a new well dug but don't have the money for that now).

There are some large sediment filtration systems out there that use a granular media instead of filters and have timed backwash options. The media should also last for a number of years. An example of one is picture below. I wondered if anyone has had experience with these and if they work well with sediment removal. At this time I don't want to purchase a water softener as I don't feel the need for one. Thanks

 

[ditttohead]

There are some problems you have to consider with backwashing sediment filters. In order for the to work the sediment must be lighter than the backwashing media. If you are trying to filter sand out then the tank will simply fill with sand since sand is heavier (SG).

I would recommend considering a gravity filter first. simple test is to fill a 5 gallon bucket with your untreated well water. f the sediment settles out in less than a minute, then a gravity filter may work for you. If it takes longer than a minute then the backwashing filter may work for you. This is obviously not scientific but can help lead you to a solution. If it doesn't settle then a flocking agent may need to be added.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Usually, yes.

If you only have fine sediment as a problem, you could use a media made just for sediment. But many backwashing filters that handle some other things, such as iron, also do a nice job with sediment too.

If a lot of sand, then consider one of the filters made for sand, such as Lakos Sandmaster.

 

[Skoby]

Alright, pretty sure I'll need both. I'll research more on backwash sediment filters and will continue using my spin down filter until I upgrade to the Lakos. Thanks

 

[Skoby]

Disregard: Found the video "5600 Softener Convert to Backwash Only Valve" online
" .

I see a barely used one for sale nearby. It's a Fleck 5600 and it looks like it has the brine valve on it. If I'm only using this for sediment etc could I just need to block off or remove the brine valve and use the appropriate filter medium or would this not work? Thanks

 

[Bannerman]

If I'm only using this for sediment etc would I just need to block off or remove the brine valve and use the appropriate filter medium?

A water softener will usually utilize 5 or more regeneration cycles whereas a back washing filter will typically require only Backwash and Rapid Rinse cycles. Depending on the specific control valve and controller you are considering, it might possibly be capable of being reconfigured for filter operation, but we will need to know the specific valve and controller model so as to answer if reconfiguration is possible.

 

[LLigetfa]

You could use a large diameter or horizontal galvanized or composite tank to settle out the heavy sediment. Use a high side port for inlet, the top port for outlet, and the bottom port to purge. As mentioned, an iron filter can trap fine sediment.

 

[ditttohead]

Alright, pretty sure I'll need both. I'll research more on backwash sediment filters and will continue using my spin down filter until I upgrade to the Lakos. Thanks

I strongly recommend the Hydra, PM me if you want the reasons, I don't like to put too much negative stuff in an open forum.

 

[ditttohead]

You could use a large diameter or horizontal galvanized or composite tank to settle out the heavy sediment. Use a high side port for inlet, the top port for outlet, and the bottom port to purge. As mentioned, an iron filter can trap fine sediment.

Something like this.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/152-153

 

[Reach4]

I strongly recommend the Hydra, PM

I think he was considering looking at Sandmaster rather than Twist2clean.

 

[Skoby]

Ok, I have much better information now. I think I've been trying to tackle my cartridge filter replacement issue by putting a very fine spin down filter (20 micron) before it. This has led to daily purging of the spin down filter (PIA). The real issue seems to be the lighter sediment as shown in the pics.

Here's the info I have so far:

Pressure tank on/off 32/52 PSI

Well pump flow rate 10 gallons/Minute 10 GPM

I currently have 1" Supply from the pressure tank to 1" Spin Down Filter which will change to 100 mesh (150 micron) that is listed as 20 GPM flow rate.


I've been researching the Fleck 5600 backwash filter (I'm not married to this idea) which has the 3/4" inlet/outlet.

I've chosen filter Ag. I'm not "married" to this media either and after I do a water test. I'm still learning so I just chose Ag and may change but I'm just trying to get an idea of what valve control body/head unit would work with this media.

These are numbers taken from a random website.
Chosen Media
Filter Ag

Tank Flow Rate Backwash Rate
9" / 2.2 / 4
10" / 2.7 / 4.9
12" / 3.9 / 7.1
13" / 4.6 / 8.9


FYI, there are only 2 occupants in my house. I don't see that changing but let's 3-4 occupants with no dishwashers and we work opposite schedules.

I don't know if up-sizing from the 5600 would be a better option.

I've also read you can run these in parallel which would increase my flow rate without increasing GPM back wash requirements.

Here are pictures. I thought I was dealing with a heavy sediment issue but now it appears as though I have more of a lighter sediment issue. Spring time does bring more of the heavier sediment and if the spin down doesn't cut it I will upgrade to a Lakos.

So, my questions are now this:
What size tank (if any) with a 5600/Ag work in my situation?
Would a larger flow control valve work better?

I've also read that running two 5600's in parallel with setting the back wash times on different cycles could be an option as I believe I would double my flow rate without increasing my back wash GPM requirements? (maybe I'm wrong on this)

Thanks for all of the input/suggestions up until this point.


Pic shows there appears to be a higher percentage of light particle vs heavy sediment.

When looking through a glass there seems to also show more light sediment (color of water stays brown) with less specks of larger sediment on bottom of glass.

 

[Reach4]

I've also read that running two 5600's in parallel with setting the back wash times on different cycles could be an option as I believe I would double my flow rate without increasing my back wash GPM requirements? (maybe I'm wrong on this)

Your assumption would be correct. However with a 10 gpm pump, I think you could even use a slightly heavier media than you named. This would be in case you had an iron or H2S to deal with. Your nose knows about H2S better than a common lab water test does. But arsenic, iron and manganese should checked out by the lab test.

The 5600 is not good for more than about 5 or 6 gpm or maybe 7 gpm of backwash. The 5810SXT is capable of more.

 

[Skoby]

I'm going to move this to the "well" subforum as I'm going to call the driller Monday to see if they can inspect my well. I have a few questions so I'll ask there. Thank you

 

[Reach4]

Over the years I've managed to get by with spin down filters and the 10 x 2.5 filters because I've been afraid to have a well driller come tell me I need a new well. Well now I'm ready to call the well guy to see if I can have it inspected. I'll try calling Monday.

Inspected? You could take the samples, and send it to a lab. I think arsenic is more of a western thing.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/recommended-water-testing-lab.75253/


If you want to test for coliform, it takes extra care. http://www.ugra.org/images/pdf/sampling_handout.pdf is one description of a method to avoid contaminating the sample.

First I would sanitize the well, and maybe check a few weeks later. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing write-up.

 

[Skoby]

Inspected? You could take the samples, and send it to a lab. I think arsenic is more of a western thing.

If you want to test for coliform, it takes extra care. First I would sanitize the well, and maybe check a few weeks later. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing write-up.

I'm still going to test the water.

 

[Reach4]

I think the down hole camera inspection is a good idea. I initially didn't pick up on that.

 

[Skoby]

I think the down hole camera inspection is a good idea. I initially didn't pick up on that.

Yeah, I thought you misunderstood what I was getting at.

I am getting to the point if drilling a new well would solve my mud issue I'd consider it. There may be other options such as PVC liner or something that I'm unaware too. Right now I just want to know if I have a more permanent option rather than trying yet another way to filter my water. That's not saying I won't add a back wash system in the future but I'd like to know where I stand with my current well first.

 

[Reach4]

There may be other options such as PVC liner or something that I'm unaware too.

They do indeed exist. I am not a pro.

Liner comes up just below the pitless. Fine gravel (that looks more like course sand than what you picture when you hear the word gravel) can get put into the "annular space".

There are ways of cleaning out the the well if the sediment only makes its way to the pump after several years. Flow inducer sleeves can help and are usually a good idea on a 6 inch casing.

The Lakos SUB-K is like a fancier effective inducer sleeve.

Use as a liner may be what they mean when https://www.certainteed.com/resources/slottedpvcwellcasing403733f.pdf they refer to "well rehabilitation".

If you identify your location a little better, somebody may suggest a well person/company who does that work. That could be via message or post. Watch the Inbox icon above for messages.

 

[LLigetfa]

I'm not clear on what the "dirt" is. If it is an organic substance, that suggests surface water is getting in the well which could be from a failed casing or the seal between the casing and bedrock, assuming some of the 400 feet is bedrock. A well formation report could go a long way to end speculation. Would your county have a well report on file?

Up to this point I was assuming the sediment was mineral in nature coming into the well through fissures in rock or through a deep unstable aquifer.

 

[Skoby]

I'm not clear on what the "dirt" is. If it is an organic substance, that suggests surface water is getting in the well which could be from a failed casing or the seal between the casing and bedrock, assuming some of the 400 feet is bedrock. A well formation report could go a long way to end speculation. Would your county have a well report on file?

Up to this point I was assuming the sediment was mineral in nature coming into the well through fissures in rock or through a deep unstable aquifer.

It's becoming more obvious to me that there's organic material in there. The "dirt" has all kinds of little "hairs" that look like tiny grass roots throughout. I never noticed this until last night when I dried it out. The sediment is pretty obvious.

I don't know if the county has a well report. I do know the company that drilled it because I called them a few years ago for some reason and the only thing I remember was them saying it 4oo something feet deep. I did try calling the drilling company this past summer but they never returned my call. I'm going to try again Monday.

What do you think I should ask them? I could pull the well head cap but I think it would have to be under the water line.