Help me choose a shower mixer

[SDRenovation]

I've got some questions about shower mixers and I'm hoping I can get some recommendations on how to choose them and what I should be paying attention to.

I am re-building a walk in shower and a tub/shower combo from scratch. I'll be running all new copper water lines (3/4"). Both bathrooms are within feet of a new Rinnai tankless unit mounted on the exterior of the home. Thinking of doing a simple single shower head in the master bathroom and single shower head and tub spout in the guest bathroom. I would like to stay with 3/4" line as much as possible, but going to 1/2" from the mixer up to the shower head and down to the tub spout is fine if that's the size the mixer that is chosen is intended for.

My main question is this: where does one start when trying to decide what to purchase? What things should I look for and learn about and what things should I dis-regard or pay less attention to when beginning my search?

What would you pick and why? Moen? Kohler? Delta? Pros or Cons?

Some points to help illustrate the situation, if needed:
The mixer for the shower in master will be mounted in a 2x4 wall.
The mixer for the guest bath tub/shower combo will be mounted in a 2x6 wall.
Both showers will be tile.
Both can be built however we want, if there is a better or worse way I'll try to accommodate or avoid it.
I'm in San Diego if that matters at all for anything other than incoming water temp for the water heater.

Please give me your recommendations!

 

[Terry]

Delta, Kohler and Moen all are good options.
If you want 3/4" into the valve, then look at HansGrohe.

You will need 1/2" copper to the tub spout on all of them. It's pretty much with these brands, pick what you like the looks of.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

All of the mixers you've listed and the Hansgrohe that Terry suggested are intended to be installed in a 2x4 wall. We install a LOT of all of those and I haven't had any problems with the quality of any of them in recent years. I do like the Delta universal valve with stops for the ability to change from a pressure balance valve to a thermostatic without changing the rough in valve and being able to install them back to back (which doesn't sound like an issue for you.) I like the functionality of a thermostatic in setting the temperature and volume separately. Again as Terry states, it mostly comes down to what style you like. There are a million choices out there now. Most of the manufactures cartridges can be flipped if the hot and cold are reversed, either on accident or on purpose with the exception of most of the Hansgrohe cartridges.

And because you asked for opinion.. I installed a delta thermostatic in my GFs tiny house and definately like the way it functions.

PS.. Brushed gold or any of the bronze colors which are becoming popular again are still a PITA to keep clean. Chrome is ageless and bombproof.

 

[SDRenovation]

Thanks Terry. I'll check out the Hansgrohe. I have a Hansgrohe faucet waiting to be installed in the kitchen.

TR - can you give me an example of when you've installed a Delta valve using it under the pressure balancing configuration and then had to change it to thermostatic configuration?

Also, is it possible to have a single handled thermostatic mixer or are all of them dual handle to provide the functionality of as you said, adjusting the temperature and volume separately. Seems like we'd like to have a pressure balancing style as I read that is where it automatically adjusts to prevent the cold shot from when someone flushes a toilet. Do I have that right?

And I'm with you on staying away from gold/bronze. We're going with brushed chrome or brushed nickel, to keep it simple and match with everything else. I chose stainless steel for my Kerdi drain.

 

[Jadnashua]

The Delta universal rough-in box can handle three different cartridges and associated trims. Delta sells their trim with a cartridge (except at big box stores where they tend to prepackage stuff where it gets the rough-in as well).

To switch from one to another, you buy the trim/cartridge package you want and take the old stuff out.

A 3/4" valve will be able to supply considerably more volume than a 1/2" valve. That won't make any difference with a single shower head, but you will notice the difference when filling the tub.

Also, keep in mind that, depending on your inlet cold water temperature, a tankless may not be able to keep up with the volume of a 3/4" valve when filling a tub.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I had actually typed up an example but then deleted it as too much uneeded info.. But I had installed a pressure balance trim that my GF had purchased for her shower, but due to the teeny tiny tankless she has, full volume would overwhelm the heater and would run full cold. I then replaced the trim and cartridge with a thermostatic (which actually compensates fractionally better for antiscald, all single handle shower faucets are mandated to be antiscald) system which allows her to set the temperature that she wants and limit the volume to the point that starts the water heater but doesn't overwhelm it... its a fine line when you're in a Tiny Home!

Single handle thermostatic valves are available, however they require an additional volume control to turn the water on and off. I believe the Moen T-stat valve requires a volume control.. A pressure balance valve can not have a shut off or volume control after the mixer or you will get lukewarm water coming out of the next nearest fixtures. For ease of installation I would recomend a system that handles both in one rough in valve. Hansgrohe and Delta both fit that bill.

PS Jad.. I think they're in San Diego so probably only a 50° rise in temps?.. they could easily get 9GPM out of a 199kbtu unit. I was also going to warn about that too, but.. meh.. I mention it to my clients and have them sign off on any added showers beyond 2 in seattle.. they know and accept the risk of cold showers.

 

[SDRenovation]

I will add to my to-do list: check out Delta Universal rough in box. Been working on trying to get Oatey to sell me the in wall hammer arrester boxes for behind the dishwasher and sink and both toilets. That's been nearly impossible. Considering IPS plumbing parts now as Oatey is too difficult to deal with for something so little.

Jim - I ran a 1" copper line into the house from the PRV outside. I'll run 3/4" to both shower and tub/shower combo because we haven't solidified for sure yet which parts we'll be using in the shower and combo. Probably just a single shower head. But there's a chance it could be a fixed shower head with an additional moveable wand. We shall see. I gotta get the parts for the toilets, ice maker, dishwasher and lavs first on order first.

Also I've got a new Rinnai Ru199eN bolted to the house, but I don't see using the tub as a tub hardly ever. I mean once in a blue moon, and honestly not even that. It's mainly going to be used as a shower.

Tut - interesting example, thanks for sharing. I think pressure balancing is the way we'll go and I'll get back to really researching the Delta and Hansgrohe hopefully soon. I like simple so thanks again for the tip. And yes we are in San Diego. I've never measured the incoming temps but it's definitely pretty warm - compared to other parts of the country. Our water heater is a 199K unit and I'm doing everything I can to make sure it can function to it's full potential. For example: 1" copper water feed to within 2' of the water heater then reducing to 3/4" into the unit... 1.25" gas line to the unit only stepping to 3/4" in the last 10 inches before the gas inlet... full insulation of all water lines (hot and cold). I figure if I can do all the little stuff how I want it, I will. I also placed the water heater halfway between the bathrooms and the kitchen so as to minimize the water line run distance to both of those places.