Replacing a washer in the lowest level of a quad level home (Drain is 36" above the floor.)

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jslott

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I am replacing a washer in the lowest level of a quad level home.

The drain the current washer runs to is 36" above the floor that the washer sits on. (The washer sits against the north wall and drains into a drain under a bathtub on the west wall–which is a 36" high concrete shelf that is the next level of the home.)

The current (very old) washer drain hose goes 42" almost straight up to a copper pipe, which runs west for 14", takes 90 degree elbow, travels 33" south, hits a 45 degree bend (to curve around a stud), travels 3" and then takes a 90 degree elbow downward into a 2" drain pipe that leads under the concrete foundation of the home into the main sewer line.

uc


Obviously, I don't want to hook a new washer up to that setup for a number of reasons...

I am trying to figure out if there is a legit way to go from the new washer (which will sit on a pedestal) to the drain that is 36" higher than the floor that the washer sits on. (I could run the washer's hose to a utility sink and then to the sump, but since I have access to a drain, I'd like to avoid that, if at all possible.)

I am including sketches of the current setup and my working sketch of the future setup.

uc


Regarding the future setup:

- The run will be 2" PVC from the standpipe all the way to the drain.
- There's no vent available without major changes...that may happen later, but I'm leaning toward an AAV for now. (They are allowed here.)

Questions
- Can the standpipe end 60" from the floor...if that is only 24" above the drain?
- Can the p-trap sit 38" above the floor if that is 2" above the drain?
- How much horizontal pipe can I run between the p-trap and the drain? (I could add significant slope to it.)

Thanks for any help you can offer with this maybe crazy setup!
 

Jadnashua

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Check the installation instructions or call the manufacturer of the WM you want to use to see if it supports that rise. The run isn't a problem if it has the proper slope (minimum of 1/4"/foot), it's how high the WM will reliably pump the water.
 

Reach4

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Questions
- Can the standpipe end 60" from the floor...if that is only 24" above the drain?
- Can the p-trap sit 38" above the floor if that is 2" above the drain?
- How much horizontal pipe can I run between the p-trap and the drain? (I could add significant slope to it.)
Most washing machines spec 96 inches from the floor for the rise .

If you were covered by UPC, having the trap that high would not be allowed as far as I know if a strict interpretation were used. I suspect they would make an exception for you. Indiana uses IPC, and I don't find a similar restriction. That doesn't mean it does not exist. Even if there were a literal violation, I expect they would ignore that for your situation. I am not a plumber.
 

jslott

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I thought I was in good shape, but during my test the stand pipe overflowed and I'm not sure why.

I ended up doing something similar to my drawing above, but not exactly what I had mapped out.

Starting at the sewer drain I have:
2" drain pipe (coming out of the foundation) --> long sweep Fernco elbow --> 3" run of 2" pipe --> 45 bend --> 30" run of 2" inch pipe with 2" of slope --> long sweep 90 elbow --> 29" of 2" inch pipe with 1" of slope --> sanitary T (with 20" vert vent pipe) --> 8" of 2" pipe with 1/2" of slope --> p-trap --> 23" standpipe.

I'm including some photos that show the run.

Excuse the mess around it and the temporary harnesses (there's a sink and some electrical that will be run through here, so I'm using existing holes in the foundation to mount the temp harnesses for now so we can have a working washer in the meantime.) Also, I haven't attached the AAV yet.

The washer ran fine and the stand pipe overflowed after about 6-8 seconds of the washer draining full blast.

I know it's odd to be so far off the ground (the washer floor is 36" below the drain,) but it's the same setup I have used with previously only higher...I'm pretty sure that's not causing the problem. Obviously, the washer is getting the water up there no problem.

I did notice while I was reviewing the setup that I got "high efficiency" hoses that are supposed to fill the washer more quickly, but could that actual overfill the washer? And even if it did, more water shouldn't be a problem while draining...I should be able to run a hose down that drain without an issue.

My only remaining guess at the problem is the turns near the drain...Is a long sweep fernco elbow so close to a 45 a problem? I can't find it in the code if that combination is a problem, but it's my best guess right now.

Can anyone shed some light on the issue?

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jslott

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Is it possible this could be caused by the drain hose being too far down the standpipe?

I don’t have the u-shaped brace (yet), so the drain hose was way down the standpipe. Could it be that simple...?

I’d be both relieved and embarrassed if that were the issue.
 
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Reach4

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Is it possible this could be caused by the drain hose being too far down the standpipe?
While you must have the hose held above the standpipe with an air gap, that did not cause the overflow.

The overflow was not affected by high efficiency fill hoses. The big flow from a washing machine is not when the water is coming in. The big flow is when the filled machine is getting pumped out.

It is possible that extending the standpipe would help. I am not a plumber.
 

jslott

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@Reach4 Thanks for your reply.

Yeah...I can't see how a deep drain hose would cause an overflow. I'm grasping at straws.

I'm still stumped though. The drain pipe is 2" and was used for the washer before. And it's only about and 18" run to the 4" stack, so I am very sure the drain is clear...

@jadnashua and @Terry – any thoughts?
 

Reach4

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My only remaining guess at the problem is the turns near the drain...Is a long sweep fernco elbow so close to a 45 a problem? I can't find it in the code if that combination is a problem, but it's my best guess right now.
That rubber elbow is not allowed in the code. Is that important to you? Not being in the code doesn't mean it won't function. Also, is it really 2 inch ID, and is the pipe it connects to 2 inch ID 2.375 OD?

In Indiana code, based on IPC, standpipes shall extend a minimum of 18 inches (457 mm) and a
maximum of 42 inches above the trap weir. Access shall be provided to all
standpipe traps and drains for rodding. So increasing your standpipe to 40 to 42 inches may do it for you.

If increasing standpipe height is not enough, maybe go higher and wider using a 3 in. x 2 in. PVC DWV Hub x Hub Reducing Coupling . So maybe make the extension out of 3 inch. When you get overflow during your test, is it a large overflow or a little?

You could place extensions for testing without gluing initially.
 

jslott

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Thanks again.

The drain pipe is 2" ID (as is the 2" PVC it connects to).

The overflow lasts a few seconds and is 1-1.5 gallons of water.

I can replace the fernco elbow with a straight fernco and a couple 45s, but, as you say, the long sweep 90 should do the trick (even if it isn't code).

Does the configuration seem correct? I'm not making turns I shouldn't make (two long sweeps and a 45). There's slightly more slope than is necessary, but not too much. The p-trap holds water. The line is vented shortly the trap. The standpipe isn't maxed out, but should be plenty tall enough...

I could do some or all of it in 3" pipe, but it seems like that should be unnecessary. I just want to make sure I'm not covering up a significant issue with an extra large pipe, but I can't for the life of me find an issue with the setup. Is bumping up the size a short cut or a solid solution?
 

Reach4

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Does the configuration seem correct? I'm not making turns I shouldn't make (two long sweeps and a 45). There's slightly more slope than is necessary, but not too much. The p-trap holds water.
I cannot analyze that.
The standpipe isn't maxed out, but should be plenty tall enough...
What you have is not working. Going higher may be a workaround for a convoluted path, but so what? If a higher standpipe works around the convolution, it works. Do you understand that a higher standpipe increases the pressure, and that higher pressure causes higher flow?

Go higher. That is easy and cheap. You should probably extend the AAV pipe some too, if you glue things in. You can test before gluing. If going to 42 inches does not do it, how about 72 inches? The reason that a 72 inch standpipe is not allowed by codes is that it can cause siphoning in the trap. However a WM usually ends with dribbling water during the spin, so in practice the trap would get refilled. It would stand out during an inspection, however. Your rubber elbow might not stand out. But anyway, you could go extra high and prove that works. Then chop it down. If you have not yet glued, it is easy to switch to a higher pipe if you went too short.
 
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jslott

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Yeah–that makes sense and it may be the best route. I just want to be thorough and make sure that the fast and cheap workaround is still good work.

There's always a possibility that I'm missing something obvious or overlooking something in my own design, so I really appreciate the input. Thanks so much.
 
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