1999-2000 era Crane Toilet leaking past flapper, frequently refilling

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Steve42

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My daughter has a basement bedroom in our home. The bathroom was added by the previous owner shortly after the house was built. It has a pumping system because it is below the septic tank inlet. We began noticing that the pump would kick on when we were in bed at night, even when she was away at school.

When she came home for the summer, she reported that the toilet was running frequently. My wife looked at it while I was at work and told me the flapper was warped. I tried to guess the model of toilet based on available information and determined that the best flapper reported to fit was the Korky Universal (not the adjustable one). I replaced that and they told me later it was still running.

I replaced the filler valve tonight and I noticed while watching for leaks that the water level in the tank was slowly dropping and I could hear a dripping sound inside the toilet. After just a moment, the filler valve activated and added some more water. It’s got to be the flapper, but if that is not the right one, I’m at a loss. American Standards website doesn’t seem to be any help.

Any clues on how I can find the best flapper?

Steve
 

Jadnashua

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It might be the right flapper, but it is not installed properly. If the overflow tube has nubs on the side, you need to cut out the ring that goes around the tube, and only use the nubs. Using both tends to warp the flapper, making it leak.

Sometimes, there could be some crud on the sealing surface...rub your finger around that and see if it is smooth.

Sometimes, you need to tweak the chain length...too tight, it won't fully seal, too loose, it might get caught underneath.

While not common on a toilet that has been working right, the seal between the tank and the bowl could leak, and may not show an external leak. That tends to be a potential problem on a new install versus one that's been in service for awhile.

Check the overflow tube to ensure it isn't cracked, letting water escape. If you turn the water off, how far does it go down?

If you post a picture, that might prompt some other item people might spot.
 

Steve42

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I got enough light to get a decent picture and saw that the tank is #4471 as well.

57804B43-94B4-4FF2-882D-0A2795FBB25A.jpeg
AF155242-1FAD-4F34-BFB6-8EB949720BC9.jpeg
 

Steve42

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Sometimes, there could be some crud on the sealing surface...rub your finger around that and see if it is smooth.
The Korky #2003 has a plastic flush valve seat that is installed with a healthy dose of silicone to the existing tank seat, so it has a smooth surface.

Sometimes, you need to tweak the chain length...too tight, it won't fully seal, too loose, it might get caught underneath.

I verified the chain has enough slack but not enough to get under the flapper (as pictured).

While not common on a toilet that has been working right, the seal between the tank and the bowl could leak, and may not show an external leak. That tends to be a potential problem on a new install versus one that's been in service for awhile.

Yeah, this toilet's been installed for about 20 years, and I can vouch for the seal being in place for at least 6 of those.

Check the overflow tube to ensure it isn't cracked, letting water escape. If you turn the water off, how far does it go down?

No cracks that I could see; that's why I added extra light for the photos. The leak is about as rapid as a sink faucet that needs a new washer... you can hear a single drip every 1 or 2 seconds.

If you post a picture, that might prompt some other item people might spot.

Done! :)
 

Jadnashua

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Pull the hose out of the overflow and ensure it is clipped so the end is ABOVE the top of the tube and see if that helps.
 

Steve42

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Pull the hose out of the overflow and ensure it is clipped so the end is ABOVE the top of the tube and see if that helps.

Are you saying I should have the hose spray directly into the tank OUTSIDE the overflow tube? Otherwise, the hose end is already above the top of the tube. The black part you see extending into the tube is a part of the clip, not a part of the hose.
 
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Jadnashua

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Your picture looked like the hose was below the top of the tube...so, no, that's not an issue. When the hose is pushed down into the tube, it can cause the tank to siphon...won't happen if it's where it is supposed to be, so that's out.

If you look at the flapper from the edge, is it warped, or is the outer edge nice an flat?

I don't see anything obvious. Maybe someone else will.
 

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Anyone else got more ideas? My daughter is tiring of turning the toilet supply on and off every time.
 

Reach4

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If you ever need a plunger with that toilet, and you are not holding on to that toilet for non-financial reasons, I would replace the toilet. The more work you put into that toilet, the more invested you will feel.

I am not saying that you will not be able to fix that toilet. But putting in a new toilet would both fix the problem, and give a flushing performance upgrade. Despite using less water, most new toilets flush better than the old 3.5 gpf toilets.
 

Steve42

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If you ever need a plunger with that toilet, and you are not holding on to that toilet for non-financial reasons, I would replace the toilet. The more work you put into that toilet, the more invested you will feel.

I am not saying that you will not be able to fix that toilet. But putting in a new toilet would both fix the problem, and give a flushing performance upgrade. Despite using less water, most new toilets flush better than the old 3.5 gpf toilets.

Right now, if I can repair it for under $25, it's better for me to keep it.

This bathroom is based on a predecessor to the Zoeller 103-0008 Model WD270 Qwik Jon 103 Pump System and the toilet is mounted atop the tank. When my daughter graduates from college and moves out, assuming that I haven't moved by then, I'm probably going to remove the entire bathroom. It is a financial hit to replace the pump when it fails (our Home Warranty replaced it last time and then said they shouldn't have) and it's a mess to work on.
 

Reach4

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A couple of tests.
  1. If you leave the water off overnight, how far does the water level drop? Just to where the flapper hits the seat, or lower still?
  2. If you wait until the water has dropped to maybe an inch above where it is going to stop dropping, put a few widely-separated drops of food color into the still water. See what the flow pattern is, and thus you will see where the water is leaking out.
 
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