Very busy sump pump is flooding our yard and cycling constantly.

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Elana

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What suburb are you in. Are you near the Fox River? What about your next door neighbors? Do they have basements with similar problems? A french drain for the rear yard water issue wont help unless you have a way for it to drain and right now your pump is at its limit. I would still call your local village engineering dept. These engineer's are usually are very receptive I have found always eager to help. You don't have to give out your name and address. I'm sure that they know the water table levels and any unground springs if any exist.

Hi, I am in the NW burbs, nowhere near a river nor flood plain. My neighbors don't have this issue. I interviewed the neighbor immediately next to me about it, as we are at an equivalent elevation and only 10 ft. apart, and got some useful info. They have a basement and a sump pump too, but by his own observation our sump pump goes off way more than theirs. And apparently our basement (while inhabited by the previous owner) only flooded once over the course of 5 years, and that was without any sump pump installed. Which leads me to believe whoever installed it may have been overzealous with drilling these holes. However, various professionals (not here) have made it seem there will be dire consequences if I seal the weep holes, as I will risk ejecting the sump basin completely, or at least have stagnant water beneath the house. I don't see why I should care about water that is 25"+ below my foundation line, but like I said... "dire consequences."

In the end I may have to contact the village engineer, but so far all of my interactions with the village have been maliciously awful (any time we've had to get a permit, for instance) and I am wary to do so. We just spent a ton of money on the new sump pump so won't be able to afford some kind of expensive remediation right away, if that is what they require.

Maybe I will drop them an anonymous line, as you suggest. :)

EDITING TO ADD: My neighbor did say that he installed what amounts to a dry well in his yard, but again, my plumber discourages this as a solution since he thinks my sump pump will just recycle the water. But something that gives the lawn a chance to dry out could be helpful. It's a lot of money to gamble, though.
 

Cacher_Chick

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Concrete is not damaged by water, that is why we use it to build culverts and bridges. A basement is basically an in-ground swimming pool, and depending on the soils, it might fill up with water. The sump pump is there to keep your basement from filling up with water, nothing more, nothing less. Many homes have water under the floor during the wetter times of the year. It is when that next big rain comes that the level get pushed up higher that it can become a problem. If the sump pump can keep the water level below the slab in all weather conditions, it has done what it was meant to do.
 

SteveW

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Hello all,

We moved into this house about 10 months ago. We are located in the Chicago suburbs. Our lot size is not very big and our weather conditions are famously extreme. Our backyard is extremely muddy and soggy throughout the year. Truthfully, most of the mud (along with an intermittent "pond") is in our rear neighbor's yard, as they are downhill from us, but we still get a fair share of mud near our shared fence line. This is largely due to our sump pump. It runs every 10 minutes (now that we have it set to 13" before discharging, which is as high as we can set it without the water going above the inlet pipe). It takes less than 2 minutes for the basin to fill to 6". The basin is 24" in diameter and I think it is about 25-30" deep, though I haven't measured that.
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It seems to me that if your sump pump is running essentially continuously, all year round, and you are not seeing water come out of your perimeter drain, then it stands to reason that the water in the sump is not water being drained from around your foundation. You say that your neighbors don't have this same problem, and you are not near a creek/river, so no reason to think there is an especially high water table.

What's left? Maybe a plumbing leak? Maybe in digging the sump someone hit an undergound spring?
 

Elana

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I would tend to downgrade any other statements made by that person.

Funny you should say that. This was what a waterproofing company told me, and the rest of the phone call wasn't any better.

What's left? Maybe a plumbing leak? Maybe in digging the sump someone hit an undergound spring?

Before I could even finish describing my problem (to the waterproofing company) she cut me off and told me there is nothing anyone can do for me, that I live above a spring and all I can do is move. I asked how you can check if it is a spring, and she says she knows it is because I said the water keeps coming and she's been at this for 35 years... Something like a leaky pipe was not a consideration of hers. I tried to explain about the weep holes and she cut me off again saying the sump basin must have those holes otherwise we will get stagnant water beneath the house and then DISASTER!
 

Cacher_Chick

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Unless you have a way to accurately compare the elevation of your sump pump crock to that of your neighbors, you cannot use that as a valid comparison. It could simply be that your basement is deeper than theirs when compared to a fixed level. The water will fill the deeper hole first.
Many homes have the foundation drain tiles on top of the footing, so the sump crock would be largely below the level of the piping, and the basement floor slab is poured on a bed of stone which puts the bottom of the slab well over the top of the piping.
 

Jadnashua

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If your basement is at about the same elevation as your neighbors, and their sumps are not full and require a pump, you should have the water tested to verify that it's not from a broken pipe. They can tell if it is groundwater or treated water. Depending on where the meter is, it may not show up on yours and the utility may not know about it.

I will say that the house I grew up in had the sump pump run pretty long times all year round except in a really dry spell. The house was about 1/4-mile from the town's spring-fed water supply. That was great to drink until they pawned us off on a different water district that got water from Lake Ontario that had to be treated heavily.

Grading around the house and how you run the gutters can make a difference on the amount of water that gets to the sump.

The town may be able to tell you about the height of the water table in your area, but springs might be there that would not possibly be an issue for a neighbor.

A side benefit of testing the water is that, if it is clean, it might be good for drinking!
 

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I think that the storm sewers and the regular sewers run together in Chicago. If you hooked up your new pump to your sewer line it would possibly, in a way, constitute a shortcut. Run the pump til the water table drops. You may be just pumping the water around in a circle as things stand. I would not consult the authorities. Or your regular plumber.
 

Elana

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I think that the storm sewers and the regular sewers run together in Chicago. If you hooked up your new pump to your sewer line it would possibly, in a way, constitute a shortcut. Run the pump til the water table drops. You may be just pumping the water around in a circle as things stand. I would not consult the authorities. Or your regular plumber.

The City of Chicago proper does let you hook up to the sewer line, but here in the suburbs they are two separate lines and it is illegal. I was thinking to do it anyway because at least we'd hopefully have a "good run" with a dry yard before we get caught and have to pay a fine. But I'm going to try a couple other things before we get to that point. I've ordered the marine epoxy and we are going to try to seal those holes. My one concern at this time is: is there any reason to feel that my drain tile (or whatever the technical term for that pipe pictured in post #5) is insufficient for bringing all harmful water to the sump pump?
 

Reach4

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I've ordered the marine epoxy and we are going to try to seal those holes.
Start with the lowest holes. I have a hard time picturing the epoxy holding as it hardens. How long is it supposed to take to harden?
 

Elana

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Start with the lowest holes. I have a hard time picturing the epoxy holding as it hardens. How long is it supposed to take to harden?

That's the plan, and I'll have a better idea once we start, but I think most of the holes are really near the bottom, so don't know if we'll wind up in a position where we'll need to drill new ones higher. But you think it is necessary/prudent we have some drilled holes rather than just relying on the drain tile?

The product we are using is Loctite 1919324 Marine Epoxy. It says:
  • Machinable, won't crack when drilled
  • Water and solvent resistant, highly durable
  • Does not shrink, one-time application
  • Convenient syringe dispenses equal amounts of each component every time
  • Apply and cure under water, eliminates the need to drain out water before fixing
 

Reach4

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But you think it is necessary/prudent we have some drilled holes rather than just relying on the drain tile?
I had not consider that. Having the drain tiles do it all might just the think.

If I did fill in the bottom holes, I would be alert for water coming in on the floor outside the pit, and be ready to drill some 3/16 higher holes.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/epxy_mrn_s/overview/Loctite-Epoxy-Marine.htm
It hardens in 2 hours. I expect it is a thick liquid when you mix.
loctite-epoxy-accessories-1919324-64_145.jpg


So would you be picturing mixing a bit, putting some on a finger of your nitrile glove, pushing that to a hole, and holding for an hour or two? How about dipping a screw thread in it, and screwing in the screw.

Maybe you could use waterproof pop rivets.
 
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Elana

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Hello, it's me again. The epoxy I ordered won't be here til Monday, but in the meantime I figured I'd play with the water level to see if there is a point where it will "level" out (i.e., the natural water table). Right now it seems stable-ish around 16", which leaves about 9" of empty basin before we get to my basement floor. Of course, this means my drain tile is completely submerged. I am wondering if it is actually problematic to leave the drain tile submerged full-time. I don't know anything about anything, but I would assume that pipe is pitched upwards (or rather downwards, into the sump basin), so I don't think the water would readily flow in reverse in that pipe - so can it really damage the foundation if I let the basin fill above it?

Obviously I would love to hear that it is fine to let it fill practically to the brim, in case that solves my problem. But I guess I'd rather know the truth so I don't wind up with both a water issue and a foundation issue down the line. I have been told not to let the water go above the inlet pipe, but I'm not sure if that is hard science, or just a bit of folk wisdom. So I am hoping the pros around here can advise. Thanks again for all of your help.
 

Cacher_Chick

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More often than not with a foundation drain the pipe is layed on or next to the footing, so it is flat (with no pitch). As the water level rises, it flows to the point of least resistance, which is the sump crock. The standing water level is not an issue, but what you will need to do is monitor it closely because if there is a heavy rain, the level could rise more quickly than your pump can remove it. There is no way to know for sure except to observe and be ready to make adjustments if it becomes necessary.
 

Elana

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Sounds like a good plan. I have been observing it a lot already! It seems like it is pretty good about emptying the pit in a hurry once it goes off. Like a hearty toilet flushing. For the water level, is 6" from the top the correct "upper limit" we should abide by?
 

Reach4

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Sounds like a good plan. I have been observing it a lot already! It seems like it is pretty good about emptying the pit in a hurry once it goes off. Like a hearty toilet flushing. For the water level, is 6" from the top the correct "upper limit" we should abide by?
I am thinking 4, and plugging holes below 6 if practical.
 

Elana

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I am thinking 4, and plugging holes below 6 if practical.

I think every single drilled hole is within 5" of the bottom, so all those would need to be filled and possibly new ones made higher up.

With the new upper limit of 17", the sump pump did not run once last night (as far as I can tell), and the pond in the neighbor's yard is already nearly gone. However, I don't know if this solution will last because when I dropped the limit half an inch to make it run this morning (to the front of the house into the street), it seemed like it filled again a lot faster than before. It used to take nearly 10 minutes to get to 13" but it made it back to that height shortly after running. It still hovered at ~16" without going off the whole time I watched it, but it got to that point much, much faster. I wonder if making the soil less saturated has allowed water to flow that much faster into the pump. Hopefully the pump won't start going off again constantly, just at 16" instead of 13" as before.
 

Cacher_Chick

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Consider that a common basement floor averages 3-4" in thickness, my suggestion would be to try to keep the water level at least 6" below the top of the slab. It is not uncommon for the floor to have a low spot somewhere around the perimeter, and that it often the first place one might see water leak in from below if the level gets too high. Plugging the holes in the basin will not be of any benefit, they are what will eventually allow the basin to drain naturally.

What I have not mentioned that it is just as important to make sure all of your roof gutters are maintained and the downspouts are piped out and away from the structure, preferably to the downhill side if there is any slope. The yard around the structure should also be sloped so surface water runs away from it. Sometimes water problems are caused or increased by poorly planned landscaping.

If your home is like many others in the midwest, the ground is saturated right now and it will take awhile for things to dry up. Eventually you will very likely see the water in your sump will naturally fall if there are holes in the pit that allow it to escape as the subsoils dry.
 
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