High efficiency boiler recommendations

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maggie arteen

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Hello - I moved into a new home last year (approx 1900 square feet, split level, raised ranch). The home had a Buderus GB142 boiler (~9 years old) and we had several issues with it over the year. Most recently the heat exchanger became cracked and started to leak. I've been advised that we should replace the boiler vs. fixing it (is that good advice?) For our new boiler I've had 2 quotes from 2 different companies - one has suggested the Bosch Greenstar ZB 35-3 and the other suggested a Lochinvar WHN 155 (or WHN 110). Any thoughts on those 2? Are the Naviens really not that great (something else I was told). Should we stay away from an aluminum heat exchanger? I don't know too much about boilers but trying to make an informed decision! Thank you in advance for any advice!
 
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Dana

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My initial thought is that ALL of the aforementioned boilers are ridiculously oversized for a 1900' house in Wayland, assuming you have glass in the windows and doors that close.

Since you have at least one winter (or at least a few months) of heating season to work with, run a fuel use based heat load calculation on last winter's gas bills. If you can share the exact meter reading dates and amounts I can walk you through that here.

A new code-min 1900' house wouldn't be losing more than ~20-25,000 BTU/hr @ +6F (the 99% outside design temperature for Framingham, which is close enough.) A crummy barely insulated early 20th century house with no wall insulation and only 5" of fluff in the attic might be twice that. Even the smallest of the boilers mentions puts out 4-5x what the new house needs, and at least twice what the barely insulated house would need.

The minimum fire output of the Greenstar ZB 35-3 or WHN 155 is probably way more than your actual heat load. The min-fire output of the WHN 110 may be close to your heat load, but there's no point to a modulating boiler if it never actually modulates. Ideally the min-fire out would be less than half the design heat load so that you reap the modulating comfort & efficiency.

Oversizing has consequences for both efficiency and longevity, especially if the house is broken up in to multiple zones. It's worth running the napkin-math on your zone radiation . If you don't have enough heat emitter to run it at condensing mode it'll short cycle itself into low efficiency and an early grave. (Not saying that's what happened to your Buderus, but it too is probably too oversized for the house & radiation to be a good fit.)

One pretty-good "one size fits all" boiler for houses that size in MA is the HTP UFT-080W, which can modulate down to as little as 7500 BTU/hr at minimum fire, and doesn't need much radiation to keep from short cycling. Lochinvar's WHB 085 or WHB 055 are probably reasonably good fits too, and have more programming bells & whistles than the UFT-080W, but are usually substantially more expensive. Unlike the Naviens, both the UFT and WHB series boilers are fire-tube boilers with stainless steel heat exchangers, that have 10:1 turn down from max-fire to min-fire, which makes them pretty easy to dial-in for max comfort & efficiency in most houses.
 

maggie arteen

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Dana - Thank you ... I've attached last year's worth of my bill - is this data sufficient to complete the calculation? Let me know - thx
 

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maggie arteen

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Thanks for your advice Dana .. I'm calculating the load to be ~25,000 BTU/hr at 60 degree balance point assumption, so sizing at 1.4x I get about 43,000 BTU/hr. I agree that those units suggested to me seem to be too much. I will try to suggest the units that you mentioned above. Thank you so much.
 

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Looking at your billing your worst-case month ending January 26 came in at 6.1 therms (610,000 BTU) input BTU/day or 25,417 BTU/hr at an average outdoor temp of 23F. Assuming 90% efficiency (don't know what water temps you're running) that would be 0.9 x 25,417= 22,875 BTU/hr output @ 23F.

Assuming a 60F balance point that's 60F-23F= 37 F heating degrees, for a linear constant of 25,417/37= 618 BTU/hr per degree-F below 60F outdoors.

Assuming an outside design temp of +6F would be 60F-6F= 54F heating degrees, for an implied load of 618 BTU/hr x 54F= 33,372 BTU/hr.

That's a bit high for a 2x6 framed house with an insulated foundation, but not out of the realm of reason. But that would make any of the proposed boilers still ridiculously oversized.

The boiler doesn't get upsized for the indirect water heater, but a smaller boiler would need to give priority to the indirect when it's calling for heat, which is commonly done.

How much radiation do you have on each zone, zone by zone?
 

maggie arteen

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How can I calculate the radiation on each zone? Let me know and I will do my best -
In the meantime, I got another quote today for the Lochinvar WHB085 (what you had suggested above) - I feel better about installing that one vs. the other 2 .. however it is the most expensive quote I've received so far.
 

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Lochinvars tend to be on the pricey side. The WHB055 would easily handle the loads at your house, but would still probably be more expensive than the HTP UFT-080W by quite a bit.

The minimum fire input of the WHB085 is 8500 BTU/hr, the min-fire input of the WHB055 isn't a whole lot lower a 8300 BTU/hr, so the amount of radiation needed to keep it from short-cycling is about the same. The min-fire input of the UFT 080W is a bit lower at 8000 BTU/hr, but still in the same range.

What type of radiation do you have? If it's fin-tube baseboard just measure the lengths of the baseboard in each room on a zone to the nearest foot and add them all up. If it's cast iron radiators & cast iron baseboard estimate the total "Equivalent Direct Radiation" square feet (EDR) on each zone by radiator type & size.

To balance perfectly with the boiler's minimum fire output at a water temperature low enough for mid-90s efficiency with no on/off cycling at all until the thermostat is satisfied, fin-tube baseboard puts out about 200 BTU/hr per running foot, radiators put out about 50 BTU per square foot EDR. So, for the WHB085 it's minimum in put is 8500 BTU/hr, so at 95% efficiency it's output is 0.95 x 8500= 8075 BTU/hr. So ideally each zone would have at least 8075/200= ~40 feet or more of fin-tube baseboard, or 8075/50= 160 EDR' of cast iron radiator. With some programming of the boiler that can be cheated a bit (more so with radiators than with fin-tube baseboard), but not by 50%.

With radiant floors & ceilings it's a lot more complicated, taking a bit more analysis of the type of radiant, the total length/volume of tubing etc, not an easy "...divide by 200..." or "...divide by 50..." sort of napkin-math (sometimes doable in your head when optimally caffeinated.:) )

It's shocking the number of hacks out there who will measure up the baseboard and multiply by 500 or 600 BTU/hr to come up with the boiler size, since that's what the baseboard will emit when running 180-200F water out of the boiler. That should be an absolute upper bound for the boiler size even for a dumb non-modulating cast iron boiler, and nowhere near optimal.

Even more depressing are the "lessee, ya got 1900 square feet, times 40 BTU per square feet gives ya 76KBTU, so let's make it a hundred just to be sure" kind of HVAC contractors. Those types of rules of thumb can be useful sanity checks, but only if a more reasonable multiplier is use. Most of the hacks in my area (Worcester) use 25-30BTU/foot for new construction 35-40BTU/foot for older houses, and usually end up oversizing by more than 2x, often by ~3x. That's an even LESS optimal way to size a boiler.

Sanity-check rules of thumb would be 20 BTU/ft @ 0F for insulated 2x4 construction with no foundation insulation, 15 BTU/foot with foundation insulation, or 12 BTU/ft @ 0F for new, tight code-min houses with low-E glass. That usually puts it within striking distance of the actual loads, but can be either higher or lower than reality, but it's at least on the same planet.

Doing it by the book (= the ACCA Manual-J heat load calculation method) is time consuming but good when done correctly, and necessary for brand new houses. By contrast a fuel-use load calc is pretty quick, and puts some firm stakes in the ground that are pretty hard to rationalize away.
 
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maggie arteen

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Dana .. Just wanted to thank you for all of your help and guidance. We ended up paying a little extra and going with the Lochinvar WHB085, but the amount of pressure we got to install the Bosch ZBR35-3 was crazy .. I'm sure it would have been fine either way, but I was shocked at the pressure.
Thanks again for your advice.
 

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Dana .. Just wanted to thank you for all of your help and guidance. We ended up paying a little extra and going with the Lochinvar WHB085, but the amount of pressure we got to install the Bosch ZBR35-3 was crazy .. I'm sure it would have been fine either way, but I was shocked at the pressure.
Thanks again for your advice.

Actually the Greenstar ZB 35-3 probably would have been a disaster. I probably would have short-cycled itself into an early grave on zone calls if operated at condensing efficiency, and is so oversized it might never modulate. You never really spelled out your radiation type and amount per zone, but that would be useful to know for dialing in the outdoor reset curve on the WHB085 for optimal comfort & efficiency. It's unlikely that the installer did that for you, or at least not with any precision, but YOU should. It's shocking how many modulating condensing boilers get installed where the installer programs it for 180F, no reset curve, and just walks away. To get any condensing efficiency out of it requires the boiler run at 130F or lower as much as possible, but whether it can be run there without short-cycling depends on your zone radiation.

So, take the time to measure it all up and I'll recommend a few details on the outdoor reset function. The WHB has lots of bells & whistles- you might make the operating manual your nighttime read for then next week or so until you understand how program it all.

When the outdoor reset curve is set up to the ideal the burns are nearly continuous during cooler weather, with boiler water temps low enough that it never satisfies the thermostat in under an hour, but never loses ground on room temperature. You can probably get there fairly easily with the WHB085, and would NEVER get there with the Greenstar ZB 35-3.
 

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Is this a fin tube baseboard? This is good timing because someone is coming in next week to help us set the curve because right now it’s taking 3 hours to increase the temp by one degree :) I will take the time to do the measurements
 

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Dana

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Yes that is fin-tube baseboard.

Taking 3 hours to raise the temperatures 1 degree is a GOOD thing, as long as the room is at a temperature you like, and the boiler is burning continuously rather than doing a lot of on/off cycling during that time. With a modulating condensing boiler it's generally more efficient to dial in the curve so that the temperatures never move either up or down. Overnight setbacks require higher temperatures/lower efficiency during the recovery ramp. Lochinvars all have a "boost" mode to allow more rapid recovery from setbacks if you prefer a cooler house for sleeping but still like waking up to a warm house, but that takes a small bit off the as-used efficiency.

I believe this series also has the ability to set different water temperatures for different zones.

Like I said, there are lots of bells & whistles to programming the Lochinvars, so DO take the time to read the manual several times until you understand what it can do. If you get hung up on something that you can't quite figure out write it down and ask the tech next week. If you study it carefully you may end up know as much or more about this model's features than the technician, but that would be a good thing (for both you and them) once it's sorted out.
 

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Thank you for your help - and now I understand better why they programmed the curve this way .. I thought something was wrong with the system at first :)
 

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Thank you for your help - and now I understand better why they programmed the curve this way .. I thought something was wrong with the system at first :)

There are other features to program to keep it from short-cycling at very low water temperatures during warmer weather when the radiation is emitting less than the minimum fire output. I forget what Lochinvar's terminology is, but it basically allows you to program how far above the curve temperature it would allow before turning off the burner, and how far below the curve it will drop before re-firing etc.

The manual makes a great bedtime story- see it puts you to sleep too!:)
 

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I have a Weil-McLain HE II from 1997. The boiler exclusively heats my domestic hot water with a water maker. The boiler exceeds its high limit temperature, up to 220 degrees and blows the pressure release valve. The boiler shuts down and will not function to heat the hot water. It will turn back on when the power is reset. The boiler seems to go through the cycles as normal. As the problem evolved, the pressure release valve drips, so I replaced it. The circulator pump then made a lot of noise, with the system less than full of water, so I filled the system manually (with water filling valve) and realized I have no backflow preventer valve in-line, which resulted then in boiler water backing up into my domestic cold water. Unfortunately the pressure side of the pressure/temperature gauge does not work, so I do not know how high the pressure goes, though it must get to 30 pounds to cause the pressure release valve to open. Any advice? Is it possible that the aquastat is bad, or are there other possibilities?
 

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You absolutely need to put a pressure gauge on this system to operate it properly. The expansion tank needs to be pre-charged to the right system pressure prior to pressurizing the system. (Typically 13-15psi unless it's an unusually tall house.)

If the system is going beyond it's high limit-temperature it's highly likely that an an aquastat is bad, or it could simply be the thermal coupling at the aquastat's sensor in the well isn't very good, and needs some thermal coupling goop.
 

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Thanks. Is the thermal couple separate from the aquastat? I did not pull the aquastat out yet, thinking it was all one unit and would need a replacement part. The system is a little confusing. When the boiler cycles and the temperature goes up to 225, it still does not heat the water in the water maker. The water maker calls for the boiler to function for 60 minutes, then errors out, and very little hot water is created. It seems to me, even if the boiler is problematic, as long as the circulator pump is running, when the boiler is heating up (it is running), it should heat the water in the water maker. There is no external zone valve on the water maker line-in from the boiler, and I don't think that there is a zone valve inside the water maker. Maybe the expansion tank is a problem, although it certainly has gotten up to working pressure and beyond at times.
 

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The thermocouple sensor is attached to the aquastat, but rests inside port in the side of the boiler. There are heat conductive grease-like materials often used to increase the amount of thermal conductivity between the thermocouple and the boiler's sensor port.

The expansion tank has to be set to the system's design operating pressure. It's function is to keep the pressure from going too high and blowing the pressure relief valve (or breaking the boiler.)

Is the "water maker" an indirect fired tank operated as a zone off the boiler?
 

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Yes. The water maker is an Amtrol product which is a heats water as a zone off of the boiler. I am thinking now that the expansion tank is a likely contributing factor. To replace it, do I need to do anything more than depressurize the system, remove and replace the expansion tank and then repressurize the system? The system pressure is about 15 pounds, based on where the pressure gauge is stuck (15 pounds).
 

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The system pressure is all over the place. Just because the clock broke when it was 11:47 doesn't mean that it's roughly 11:47 all day, just because your speedometer got stuck at 37mph doesn't mean the average speed of the car is 37mph.

If you keep running it under & over pressure in an unknown state you're going to break things or wear them out early. You simply can't correct any of it driving blind. Swapping out random parts is not a solution- replace the pressure gauge or add one at a convenient location near the boiler.
 
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