In-well CSV & pressure tank, need advice

Users who are viewing this thread

joshm

New Member
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Spokane, WA
Hi all, please forgive my ignorance on all things wells & pumps - I've been on city water all my life and this is new to me.

Quick background: last year we bought property with an old well connected to the house. It produces less than 1gpm and the pump is 25 years old. The previous owner drilled a second well just before selling to us which produces a more comfortable 9gpm, but never connected it to the house.

I have little information on the actual equipment, only a vague invoice provided to the previous owner. The new well was outfitted with a Berkeley submersible 2-wire 1.5hp pump (unknown model), Flotec CSV (unknown model), and 3.5gal in-well pressure tank (IWSS4/NT-30SS sealed, precharged to 38psi) along with a pressure switch inside the well casing, set to 40/60. It doesn't help that the guy who did the work & wrote the invoice won't return my calls.

The issue I'm up against is very short pump run time. I get about .6 gal drawdown from the small pressure tank, then the pump kicks on. The specs for the tank say I should get .75 gal, but maybe that's just an ideal. Once the pump starts, the CSV provides a constant 50psi. Once the water is off, the pump runs for about 5-7 seconds before we hit the 60psi cut-off. Everything I read says I need to aim for a 1-2 minute runtime, but the CSV literature tells me I can use a very small tank (even though mine is smaller than the recommended 4.5gal.) Even if I increase the cut-off pressure, there's no way I'll get a minute of run time.

If I use this setup to supply the house, I feel like I'll fry my pump pretty quick with the short runtime. Based on the above, is it working like it should? Or is there a problem with either the CSV or the pressure tank?
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
I actually have the patent on the in well pressure tank, and yet I never put one on the market. They are a good idea, but like you say, they don't hold enough water. 6/10's of a gallon is actually pretty good, they exaggerate the draw down by testing it at ground level. Because of the vertical installation, if you made one long enough to hold a gallon of water, the bottom would be working at 70 PSI while the top only has 60 PSI. Also hard to make a long bladder that will last.

I also have the patent on the CSV, and it is Flomatic, not Flotec that copies everything I do, including the name CSV. I have heard they are having problems with those copy cat CSV's. I think they also have a lot larger minimum flow than 1 GPM. The tank not holding enough water and the copy cat CSV having more than a 1 GPM minimum is why you don't get much run time. Normally with a CSV you don't need the recommended 1 minutes run time, because the CSV reduces the motor amps and makes it run cooler. However, if you have a 10 GPM series Berkeley (Pentair) pump, the amps do not reduce when used with a CSV as that is not a well designed pump. You still don't need 1 minute of run time, but I would want 30 seconds or so, and enough tank draw down to fill the ice maker before the pump comes on again. Add a 4.5 or 10 gallon tank somewhere in the house, and adjust the pressure switch up if needed to get at least 30 seconds.
 

joshm

New Member
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Spokane, WA
Thanks, Cary. I'm glad you could weigh in on this. I've read all about your CSV and patent issues. I'd prefer to go with your product at some point, but I'm stuck with what I have at the moment. You are correct, I mistyped earlier - it is a Flomatic CSV. I did end up getting the CS1PH1 pump sensor which is what sparked my concern - having to adjust the run time down to 5 seconds didn't seem right.

As for the pump, the vague invoice says 7gpm Berkeley pump, but with a list price of $1400. The only Berkeley 2-wire 1.5hp pump I've found with a list price that high is the 70gpm so it may have been a typo... unless the pump guy made a healthy 75% markup! Does that have the same issues as the 10GPM series you mentioned?

The complication with our setup is that the new well is on a different electrical service than the house - it runs off a shop on that end of the property with its own electrical. Eventually I'll probably put a bigger pressure tank inside the house but I'll have to run power out to the pump so that I can have the pressure switch next to the tank rather than in the well. In the house, connected to the old well, we currently have an 85 gal pressure tank... should we use that for now? I know it's overkill and the stored water won't be as fresh & cold, but would it at least work until we piped in a smaller 4.5 (or 10gal) tank?
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Yes use the 80 gallon tank. You will have to adjust the pressure switch so it doesn't take over 3 minutes to fill the tank.

As long as the in well tank is working you don't have to move the pressure switch. Just tee in the 80 gallon tank somewhere.

Probably not going to get much of an amp drop with 7 gpm Pentair either.

And 1400 is probably correct even though it may not seem right.
 

Greenmonster123

Active Member
Messages
192
Reaction score
33
Points
28
Location
Sag Harbor, New York
I also have the patent on the CSV, and it is Flomatic, not Flotec that copies everything I do, including the name CSV. I have heard they are having problems with those copy cat CSV's.

I can attest to this. Had a well installed a few months ago, requested a CSV. The driller chose a flo matic but they couldn’t make it work, they were about to put in a drive. I gave them one of Carys CSVs that I keep for service, no problems.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks