Clog - snake doesn't work & out of ideas

[Josh Soop]

The situation:
-3 story apartment
-kitchen on 3rd floor
-2 bathrooms on 2nd floor
-garage on 1st floor (exposed pipes in ceiling)
-one of the 2nd floor bathroom sinks is VERY slow - takes hours to drain
-shower and toilet in that bathroom, and everything in the other bathroom on 2nd floor are fine
-3rd floor kitchen sink / dishwasher backs up into the 2nd floor sink
-snaked 3 times from 2nd floor bathroom sink, all of the 25' snake
-snaked once from 3rd floor kitchen sink, all of the 25' snake
-snaked 3 sections of the pipes in garage ceiling, didn't help, didn't seem to be any clogs
-tried chemicals, enzymes and hot water with dish soap, doesn't help
-no gurgling / other sounds
-can't use bladder in slow 2nd floor bathroom sink because drain is too narrow - 1.25" - will not fit in far enough because hose fitting doesn't fit in
-dumping ~3 quarts of water from the kitchen backs up the downstairs sink; the issue must be right after they merge
-the 2nd floor sink has no cabinet and is extremely close to the wall, don't think I can open the pipes behind it (the p-trap)
-note: the 25' snake is more than enough to get into the pipes of the ceiling of the garage since they're not very far apart vertically, and the sections of those pipes I was able to open up are clear. I only opened a few because the others were harder to get to; it's not clear which pipe the slow sink drains into in the garage ceiling

I'm totally out of ideas. Any suggestions?

 

[hj]

do you know a good plumber? If so, call him.

Video added by Terry Love

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

dumping ~3 quarts of water from the kitchen backs up the downstairs sink; the issue must be right after they merge

Useful info.

What happens if first thing in the morning, you dump 1 or 2 quarts of water into the downstairs sink? How much water gets accepted pretty quickly?

Is there a roof vent pretty much right above the problem bathroom sink? Rodding from the roof with a bigger snake is likely the best solution. Get a drain cleaning specialist or plumber who does roof-rodding work. Don't kill yourself or a friend who is not skilled in roof working.

How big around is the head on your snake?

How do you access the drain pipe from the bathroom? Do you remove slip joint stuff up to the trap adapter at the wall?

 

[Josh Soop]

thanks for the reply

First thing in the AM, it's no different - backs up with 1-2 qts of water.

I am snaking the slow drain thru the drain in the sink. All 25' of the snake goes down. The head is the standard head on a standard $25 snake/augur you find at home depot / lowes

The roof (4th floor) vent isn't directly above the 2nd floor bathroom, but if it was the roof vent, wouldn't all the drains be slow, not just this one? the shower in the same bathroom isn't slow, and the other bathroom on the 2nd floor is totally fine

 

[Reach4]

I am snaking the slow drain thru the drain in the sink. All 25' of the snake goes down. The head is the standard head on a standard $25 snake/augur you find at home depot / lowes

So that could be 3/8 to 1/2 inch. It is also possible that the snake is going up the vent line rather than down the drain. If you could disconnect the p-trap and put the snake into the trap adapter at the wall, you would have control on the tilt of the snake as it enters.

The roof (4th floor) vent isn't directly above the 2nd floor bathroom, but if it was the roof vent, wouldn't all the drains be slow, not just this one?

The point would not be to snake the vent, but to use the vent line as a path for the snake to the drain line. Suppose you wanted to snake the drain from the downstairs lavatory in this picture? https://terrylove.com/images/dwv_b2.jpg The roof vent would let you run a big auger in straight.

 

[Sylvan]

"Rodding from the roof with a bigger snake is likely the best solution.'

Why snake down the vent terminal if the other fixtures are working?

How do people know if the vent terminal is not stack vented or a vent stack?

Running a snake through vent stack they can run the sname for several DECADES and still accomplish nothing

You need a longer cable 1/4" x 50 feet and like stated Remove the trap and look inside to make sure your snaking down the waste not up the vent

 

[Reach4]

Why snake down the vent terminal if the other fixtures are working?

Is there a roof vent pretty much right above the problem bathroom sink?

If the vent were right above the lav drain, I was thinking this could be a straight shot through the lav sanitary tee and beyond. Josh's vent is not right above the lav.

 

[Sylvan]

"The vent stack usually runs parallel with the soil/waste stack and may either extend up through the roof or connect to a stack vent. And in this corner: a stack vent is the uppermost portion of a soil/waste stack that continues the pipe from above the highest connected fixture out the roof"

50% chance going through a roof terminals will hit a stoppage

 

[FullySprinklered]

The homeowner snake will drill a hole right through a clog. Then when you "unscrew" it, the clog heals up.

If you feel the clog as you're screwing in, run it backwards and keep pushing. If you can start breaking it up, a long stream of hot water may carry it on down to the big pipe.

If that don't work, I'll teach you the Martha Stewart method.

 

[hj]

quote: , I'll teach you the Martha Stewart method.

What's that? Go to jail and while you are there have a plumber do the drain.

 

[FullySprinklered]

In prison or out of prison?

 

[Sylvan]

Someone decided to pour acid down a set back drain on the 18 floor of a building in Manhattan . The acid are through the existing 100+ year old copper box type of drain causing a several leak below

I was called to replace the drain and being old school I climbed out of the window removed the old drain installed 4 PSF sheet lead and a 3" JR Smith 1330 IC drain

I had my helper hand me a an 6 pound ladle through the window and I poured the joint

Funny one of my employees quit as he said

"Man if your the boss and you go out there no belt and walking on that ledge I can't imagine what you would expect me to do"

All I said I do not expect an employee to anything I would not or have not done

Today that job with all the safety regulations would be over $7,000 instead of the $5,000 I charged

 

[Terry]

I'm glad I'm not plumbing in New York. Though our skyline is starting to look similar. Years ago during a wind storm, a building manager went up on a highrise roof to batten down things and a gust of wind blew him over the edge. I've been on a few roofs like that, but on days without wind.

 

[chandra smith CCP]

hydro jetting, that's a service very few plumbers provide and we are one of them, we clear all debris, grease, hair, build-up even roots out of your main line and all other drains with water pressure up to 4000 psi, we have a US Jetting Hydro Jetter, 4018 series, it pays for itself, all of our commercial and residential customers are so grateful for our hydro jetter. It will literaly take anything out of your drains. Dont go with the chemical cleaning, its bad for your pipes. 562-424-5677

 

[FullySprinklered]

Couple of weeks ago, had a customer with a clogged tub drain which also backed up into the shower. I ran my 25' snake repeatedly down both drains with no success.
Customer had a snake with a popoff crank that allowed a drill to be used. Hooked onto a world class hair rat on the second try.
I'll be shopping for one of those. Takes most of the work out of it. The hand crank snake has the ergonomics of a cinder block and really wears me out.

 

[Toolaholic]

Someone decided to pour acid down a set back drain on the 18 floor of a building in Manhattan . The acid are through the existing 100+ year old copper box type of drain causing a several leak below

I was called to replace the drain and being old school I climbed out of the window removed the old drain installed 4 PSF sheet lead and a 3" JR Smith 1330 IC drain

I had my helper hand me a an 6 pound ladle through the window and I poured the joint

Funny one of my employees quit as he said

"Man if your the boss and you go out there no belt and walking on that ledge I can't imagine what you would expect me to do"

All I said I do not expect an employee to anything I would not or have not done

Today that job with all the safety regulations would be over $7,000 instead of the $5,000 I charged

Me thinks We're Brothers from other Mothers. Semper Fi , Sully

 

[Sylvan]

I have been water jetting from the early 1980's electric and gas jetting and jetting is great BUT for soft stoppages such as soil, grease soap scum build up.

To use a Jetter before snaking a line is foolish at best on inside work

Even small lines 6" or less it is better to snake the lines to establish flow before allowing 3,000 PSI and 12 GPM flowing

Then suggest a video inspection to see if there are any defects in the line

As an expert witness several cases I have established negligence was "drain guys" who thought using a O'Brian or other type of attachment on a water jetter would work wonders

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   • toolaholic, Sep 21, 2018
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Flooding out a computer room or a night clubs cost the drain guy more then he will make in a year

There is a lot more involved in professional drain cleaning work such as clearing stoppages in a chemical or acid waste system or an autopsy table when parts are washed down a drain

By the way depending on the job which jetter I would use.

If I needed to scour the liners I would opt for more pressure, for flushing a system then more volume is needed

For grease stoppages many inept "techs" use hot water which will loosen the grease but once it goes down stream it will congeal on the cooler piping downstream and create more problems

Cold water allows the grease to break into chucks and flows harmlessly downstream for the DEP to worry about processing

Below some idiot used a Jetter to clear a 4" kitchen waste stack and caused a severe destruction in the lobby

Funny how the grease prevented a leak until the high pressure exposed the crack and caused all the damage

Why I was able to establish negligence was one man operating the jetter and no one below to make sure there was no problems

 

[hj]

So, it was your "expert" opinion that he should have had crews stationed ALL ALONG the line IN CASE something happened. In your "expert opinion" how many crews would it have taken, since there was prior NO INDICATION that even one was required?

 

[Sylvan]

Actually when water Jetting TWO people are required to be safe .

Suppose while jetting the hose breaks (which does happen) and you have 2,000 # hose out of control it places the employee at risk of being hurt and can cause damage to the property

On my plumbers discussion group one master plumber said his helper did not show up so he decided to water jet a storm line by himself and the nozzle somehow revered and came back at him srtrinking him in the head and he had to get stitches Thankfully it did not blind or kill him

In court how I normally win a case is stating the contractor did not use "reasonable care" or not according to good plumbing practices

When I was an apprentice 2nd year I was on a job and heard screaming and ran up a flight of stairs to find a mechanic on the floor writing in pain

He was using a donkey / pony / universal to thread a 6" steel pipe and he was standing by the vice oiling the threaders dies and in those days the Rigid 300 did not have a foot switch

He was wearing gloves and it got catcht and his thumb was taken off and then the vice started to spin and cut his face all I could do was unplug the extension cord .

Most of the trades should be a two person job only because of the litigation that is now a chronic problem facing our industry

Here is a case they tried to stop me from testifying and I was not only allowed to proceed I was in court three days explaining how "the victim" could have been scalded as it happened a few years prior to me being hired

https://pospislaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Clinindin-v.-NYCHA.pdf

 

[Sylvan]

By the way they said I was not an engineer and thus not qualified to talk about the pumps and related equipment I did not tell them until I was in front of a jury I was a certified stationary engineer prior to passing my master plumbers licenses and in the navy as a teenager I was a boiler tender 1,500 PSI superheated steam

Sometimes it is better to wait until trial before springing on qualifications as a shock value to the opposition

When I use my big water jetter I have 3 people there two on the roof and I stand by the machine and we are in constant contact by radios or phone .
Having extra people is just added insurance and the clients pay for it so why not be as careful as possible