Toto toilet very disappointing quality

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Herrada

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A few years ago, in part due to the recommendations here, I installed a TOTO Aimes One Piece High Efficiency CEFIONTECT Toilet. Nice design. Works pretty well. For the price I expected quality. I installed the toilet in a guest bath that is rarely used. It is not flushed very often at all. So water sits in the bowl. Today I found the the finish of the bowl below the waterline (under the water), is no longer shiny and smooth. It is rough as if it has been eaten away. Now the water from our water company here isn't perfect, but it isn't out of the ordinary. I am VERY surprised that after a couple of years that the CEFIONTECT finish hasn't held up at all. The fairly basic, 10-year + old toilet in the other bath is still smooth, and shiny. Clearly, to my thinking, the finish on the Toto toilet was defective. So, I take a look at the warranty. Toto, apparently, only has a 1-year warranty on their toilets. I have essentially paid $600+ for a maybe 60 flushes, and now have to get a new toilet (I assume there is no way to "fix' this). Is there any reason to get another Toto?? I note that American Standard has a 10 year warranty on their toilets (which seems reasonable for something that should last 20+ years). How does Toto respond to problems like this? What kind of company are they? This clearly should not happen. The porcelain finish (CEFIONTECT or other) should last A LOT longer than a about 3 years of limited use. Very disappointing.
 

Reach4

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I suggest you consider Kaboom "Scrub Free!" Toilet Cleaning System or Fluidmaster "Flush 'N' Sparkle" bleach system to cut back on future deposits.

It is not going to take off your existing deposits.

You might ask your water company what is effective at removing the deposits.
 

Terry

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One of my customers is an airline pilot. He could be gone for long periods of time. Kind of like the bathroom that doesn't get used.
He had some with regular glaze, and one with CEFIONTECT.
He wound up switching out to CEFIONTECT. That being said, the standard bowl we took out, cleaned it up with CLR and have been using it at Jamie's rental. The coating on the bowl which was like a film, which all came off with cleaning. and since Jamie keeps things clean at his place, it has been good ever since.
This can happen with the newer, since 1992 bowls that have less water in the bowl, and don't get much use.
So far, we have always been able to clean them up. Even the standard glazing.
I use the liquid bowl cleaner, and the downstairs Ultramax with CEFIONTECT still shines. Installed in 2005. My other stuff is newer.
 
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WJcandee

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The finish isn't "eaten away". It has been covered with something, usually the kind of film that develops after stuff has been sitting for a long time in a bowl. Clean it with CLR and you'll be fine.

Amazing to me how you went from, "I let stuff sit in the toilet for a long time and it discolored" to "It isn't quality" to "It's defective" to "I should be able to replace it." I think it's a stretch, and a stretch based upon misunderstanding.

The fact is, the Toto IS quality. We have three. We have one that sits in a guest room and is used irregularly. Guess what? If you leave water sitting in a toilet for a long period of time, the now-warmed, room-temperature water will incubate whatever microbes and other little living things that came in it and fly or fall into it (like mosquito eggs). This will often create a soup of stuff that adheres to the bowl and needs to be cleaned off. I hit the Toto with a toilet brush and it's fine. Not so the 1950s American Standard toilet in an essentially-unused garage apartment. The soup I found in it this summer after being unused for about 3 weeks was remarkable. I had to hit the bowl with a Pumie pumice stone to get the film off, but off it did come. (Wouldn't recommend that on CEFIONTECT as it isn't necessary.)
 

JerryR

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I had to hit the bowl with a pumice stone to get the film off, but off it did come. (Wouldn't recommend that on CEFIONTECT as it isn't necessary.)

I'd also recommend using CLR to clean the bowl as first attempt.

I bought a house that had an 18 year old Koehler bowl with nasty streaks. I used a Pumice stone on it and it cleaned up like brand new.

I also use pumice stone on my in ground hot tub tiles that get occasional grimy and they clean up like new. Lowes sells them a Pumice stone stick for about $3. Buy 2 to clean up a bay's toilet as they disintegrate as they are used. Just take your time and a nasty stained toilet bowl will look new in 15 minutes.
 

Gary Swart

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The finish isn't "eaten away". It has been covered with something, usually the kind of film that develops after stuff has been sitting for a long time in a bowl. Clean it with CLR and you'll be fine.

Amazing to me how you went from, "I let stuff sit in the toilet for a long time and it discolored" to "It isn't quality" to "It's defective" to "I should be able to replace it." I think it's a stretch, and a stretch based upon misunderstanding.

The fact is, the Toto IS quality. We have three. We have one that sits in a guest room and is used irregularly. Guess what? If you leave water sitting in a toilet for a long period of time, the now-warmed, room-temperature water will incubate whatever microbes and other little living things that came in it and fly or fall into it (like mosquito eggs). This will often create a soup of stuff that adheres to the bowl and needs to be cleaned off. I hit the Toto with a toilet brush and it's fine. Not so the 1950s American Standard toilet in an essentially-unused garage apartment. The soup I found in it this summer after being unused for about 3 weeks was remarkable. I had to hit the bowl with a Pumie pumice stone to get the film off, but off it did come. (Wouldn't recommend that on CEFIONTECT as it isn't necessary.)

Pumice or anything abrasive will destroy the CEFIONTECT.
 

Gary Swart

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The finish isn't "eaten away". It has been covered with something, usually the kind of film that develops after stuff has been sitting for a long time in a bowl. Clean it with CLR and you'll be fine.

Amazing to me how you went from, "I let stuff sit in the toilet for a long time and it discolored" to "It isn't quality" to "It's defective" to "I should be able to replace it." I think it's a stretch, and a stretch based upon misunderstanding.

The fact is, the Toto IS quality. We have three. We have one that sits in a guest room and is used irregularly. Guess what? If you leave water sitting in a toilet for a long period of time, the now-warmed, room-temperature water will incubate whatever microbes and other little living things that came in it and fly or fall into it (like mosquito eggs). This will often create a soup of stuff that adheres to the bowl and needs to be cleaned off. I hit the Toto with a toilet brush and it's fine. Not so the 1950s American Standard toilet in an essentially-unused garage apartment. The soup I found in it this summer after being unused for about 3 weeks was remarkable. I had to hit the bowl with a Pumie pumice stone to get the film off, but off it did come. (Wouldn't recommend that on CEFIONTECT as it isn't necessary.)

Pumice or anything abrasive will destroy the CEFIONTECT.
 

Herrada

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Well, I hope all of you are correct and these are just some nasty scale deposits. Will try some of the products mentioned. I will not use pumice, or any harsh mechanical abrasive as I know that's not good for the CEFIONTECT. I was under the impression that that stuff like this wouldn't adhere to CEFIONTECT (especially with their description that says, "TOTO’s extraordinarily smooth CEFIONTECT glaze prevents particulates from adhering to porous, ceramic surfaces." and "CEFIONTECT ceramic glaze, which creates an extraordinarily smooth, ion-barrier surface to help keep the bowl cleaner with every flush.", but I suppose that's just a fantasy. Maybe it's just "somewhat" better.

I hadn't consider the issue of warranty before, but looking into this a little more, it seems that Toto has the shortest warranty of the toilet producers I surveyed. Surely a company that prides itself on quality would try to reflect that confidence in their product with the longest warranty in the business, not the shortest.

American Standard: 10 years
Kohler: 3 years
Gerber: Lifetime (on vitreous)
Mansfield: Limited Lifetime
DXV by American Standard: Limited Lifetime
Duravit: 5 years
Delta: 5 years
Caroma: 2 years
Toto: 1 year
 

Terry

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The fact that I get less than 1% returns on TOTO trumps any stat you can post.
The Champion had a 10 year, and I was throwing them away in two.

With any toilet that gets rare use, you will still need to keep it clean. Some water will leave a film.
 
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Jadnashua

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Hard water mineral deposits will stick to any surface...they'll come off easier from SanGloss, but they'll form. If your water is acidic, that will etch the surface over time - how quickly, depends on the use and how bad it is. Same thing with stuff like mold and skid marks - they stick, but usually wash off when you flush, or if not, brush off easily.

My local water supply means I get some crud in the toilet bowl if it sits for very long, but it brushes off MUCH easier with the Totos and their CEFIONTECT than it did on my original toilets, those, you needed to really scrub, with the Totos, it simply brushes away easily.
 

Wallijonn

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Herrada said:
It is rough as if it has been eaten away.

Did someone pour bleach in the bowl and let it sit? Perhaps in the hope of de-mineralizing it?

If you fill the bowl up with Clorox Bleach it will eat away the porcelain, I have found.
 

tktiti

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TOTO toilets are very disappointing. I had a Kohler toilet for 8 years. I purchase it at Home Depot. No problems keeping it clean and it took a long time to develop even a hint of a hardwater ring at the water line. Although it was still a great toilet, I took it out when I replaced my vanity and sink. I wanted a Victorian look and the low slung, low cost, modern shaped Kohler toilet did not match the new sink.
Ordered a Drake bowl which paired well with a vintage looking tank. The Drake was purchased on-line. Had that bowl about a year and could not keep it clean. Thought perhaps I had purchased a "second" because the porcelain seemed to be rough and porous and I was constantly cleaning out hard water stains as well as bodily produced stains. Neither had been a problem with the Kohler toilet.
I decided I had received an inferior product and ordered another Drake bowl, this time with sanigloss. All the advertising stated that nothing would stick to sanigloss and the toilet would stay cleaner longer.
Not so. I have the exact same issues with the Drake Sanigloss toilet. It needs to be cleaned daily, sometimes twice a day. It develops a very hard water ring at the water line. And the worst part is the trap also develops hard water stains which are very hard to remove from the bottom of the toilet - both around the small water inlet hole and the larger outlet hole.
I noticed when I replaced the toilet that the trap was not fully lined with porcelain because I could feel inside the trap at the bottom of the toilet, before installation, that the trap exit had no porcelain. But now it seems the rest of the trap was not finished very well either.
It is hard for me to believe I received two faulty bowls. I don't think my water has changed. And I had no problems with a low end Kohler toilet for eight years.
I don't know whether to think Toto allows its seconds to be sold, or if all of their toilets are poor quality but I am on to my third toilet in three years and I can tell you with out a doubt I will not purchase a TOTO again.
I also wonder if there is some deception among Bloggers to keep us dopes (who are looking for information) misinformed. I still read blogs about how good TOTO is. But I would say beware. Don't believe half of what you read on the internet.
One more factoid, I purchased a very old, used, American Standard Cadet toilet for my upstairs bath that does not get used. Been in for 11 years. Has never had a water ring. It is used so infrequently that I need to remember to go upstairs and run the shower, sink and toilet so the traps don't dry up. At least I have one good toilet. May look for another used toilet at the Habitat for Humanity Store. Older toilets had quality. What happened?
 

SteveW

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"I noticed when I replaced the toilet that the trap was not fully lined with porcelain because I could feel inside the trap at the bottom of the toilet, before installation, that the trap exit had no porcelain. But now it seems the rest of the trap was not finished very well either."

This is not a flaw. Toto deliberately doesn't glaze the trap. The slight roughness keeps things (like "flushable" wipes, which shouldn't be flushed but often are) from sticking to a smooth trapway.
 

Jadnashua

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FWIW, the body of the whole toilet is porcelain. But, the 'pretty' parts are glazed where they need to be. An 8-year old toilet may have used 3.5g per flush...all of the newest ones are required to flush with 1.6g or less. This can limit somewhat how well it can rinse the bowl. The Toto II series uses two large outlets near the top that swirl down the bowl and does a better job of rinsing with the limited water available than wash-down designs.

The toilet design doesn't really have any impact on hard water deposits...the glaze and color used might cause it to be more visible on one than another. In my personal experience, when I swapped my toilets to those with CEFIONTECT (they now use their international name for that glaze), the time between needed cleaning easily doubled. Obviously, your results appear different. So, your results do not seem similar to those of the majority.
 
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