Fleck 9100SXT Regeneration problem

[ditttohead]

The gears rarely need replacement unless they break. These are extremely slow moving parts and typically last the life of the softener. We do see the occasional center gear fail but this is usually a broken shaft near the motor connection point. This is almost always caused by the pistons getting jammed over time due to an obstruction in the valve or extreme wear or age.

You should replace the seals, spacers, brine valve. All should be good after that.

 

[MCRinCA]

What you have described is nearly identical to a the long term, but only intermittent problem I have had with my 5600sxt valve over the past 3-4 years. Long story short...I could never figure out why no brine refill after regen I would observe sometimes, but not all the time. I investigated all the usual culprits from the various sites and even replaced the motor. The problem always came back. I have finally ordered 2 new micro switches and will see if that eliminates problem once and for all. While I don't know the cause, I have been able to observe what actually occurs with the valve when it skips BF. After a regen starts, the valve cycles thorough BW. After BW is complete, the motor kicks in to advance to BD. Those two regen stages are fine. The problem starts when it advances to RR. The display shows that is in RR, but that is not what happens with the gears and motor. The motor engages, but quickly stops. In other words, the valve (pistons etc) is still in BD, but "thinks" it has advanced to RR. So the valve is now "behind" one stage of the regen cycle (as far as the main and brine pistons positions are concerned). Once the timed setting for RR is complete, the motor kicks in and advances to the next phase, which is supposed to be BF. Again, this is what the display shows. BUT, remember the motor never advanced the gears (and thus the pistons) for RR to actually take place. Therefore, NOW the gears and pistons advance to RR (even though the display shows BF). After the timed setting for BF is done, the motor and gears cycle all the way back to the end, QUICKLY PASSING THROUGH THE PROPER GEAR/PISTON POSITIONS FOR BF.

I know the above sounds confusing. In other words, I have one place in the regen cycle where the motor does a quick start and stop. It always happens after BD when RR is supposed to start. At that point the gears/pistons are out of sequence (by one stage) even though the display thinks everything advanced properly. Since BF is the last phase, but the system "thinks" it's already done, the motor/gears return back to the service position skipping through their BF positions.

I was able to observe the motor and gears doing this by removing the power head and plugging it in on my work bench, starting a regen and advancing it through the regen stages. I saw the problem occur (quick start/stop between BD and RR) about 1 out of every 4 times.

I believe you may be experiencing the same problem. Your valve circuit board may have more advanced programming and is throwing an error code because of the cycle/sequence skip.

I am hoping replacing the micro switches will finally solve my intermittent problem. Replacing the motor didn't do it!

 

[Sponsor]

 

[MCRinCA]

Just read on another Board the term “short cycling” to describe this occurence and that the valve will always return to home/service position regardless of what goes wrong in a regen cycle.

 

[rdsnake]

That very well could be. Seems it is just a hair out of sequence. I myself has never experienced it in person. I usually cannot catch a regen cycle on its own. Whenever I force a regen, it cycles perfectly, every time.

So, I installed the new seals and pistons. After the install I did 2 manual regens. Both cycled without an issue. I went and checked the softener today, which was due for a regen, and water is leaking out of the lower piston all over the floor. GREAT!

I'm going to pull the seals back out of it today. I did notice the lower piston was twice as hard to move as the upper. Possibly due to the fact the lower piston is longer than the upper? The other issue I noticed, I had to "compress" the seals rather hard by hand to get the screws started. That seem abnormal to me. Any suggestions on this?

 

[MCRinCA]

The issue with the motor stopping before the gears/pistons advance to next stage and throwing the system out of sequence, which I have observed, looks like a simple case of current being withdrawn from the motor (motor starts and quickly stops). I am hoping it is related to the micro switches. I have received two new ones. I will post back after they are installed and enough time has passed for me to determine if that eliminated the problem. In reading this post, sounds like another cause might be cam movement/flexing.

I have never had any leaking like that. Hopefully, those were the correct seals and spacers! I did not notice any difficulty compressing them on my valve when I pulled/replaced them (I only have seals and spacers for the "main" piston). I recall when I bought replacements having to be careful to match them in color and material.

 

[ditttohead]

The seals should compress slightly. Take the valve apart and rebuild it again. Go through the manual, the seals and spacers must be installed exactly as shown in the manual.

 

[rdsnake]

The issue with the motor stopping before the gears/pistons advance to next stage and throwing the system out of sequence, which I have observed, looks like a simple case of current being withdrawn from the motor (motor starts and quickly stops). I am hoping it is related to the micro switches. I have received two new ones. I will post back after they are installed and enough time has passed for me to determine if that eliminated the problem. In reading this post, sounds like another cause might be cam movement/flexing.

I have never had any leaking like that. Hopefully, those were the correct seals and spacers! I did not notice any difficulty compressing them on my valve when I pulled/replaced them (I only have seals and spacers for the "main" piston). I recall when I bought replacements having to be careful to match them in color and material.

Please let me know what happens with the new mirco switches.

I did end up taking apart the pistons and seals last night. I had the lower outer seal pinched a hair. It's hard to get everything lined up because gravity wants to pull the seals down. It would be a ton easier to bench assemble the valve. Went through 2 regen cycles without an issue. I will keep an eye on it during it's normal cycle and report back.

What is the "realistic" shelve life for a Softener system? 10 years? 15 years? This system is about 7 years old and I feel as if it's completely unreliable. This is a "commercial" unit and I feel bad anyone that purchased it for business use. Too many moving parts. I've thought about buying a new system but the cheap ass in me doesn't want to spend $1,000 for a new single tank unit.

 

[MCRinCA]

I replaced the two micro switches on my 5600sxt and have had two successful regen cycles with the brine tank refilled. If this is FINALLY the solution to my “short cycling” where the motor starts and quickly stops after BD without advancing the gears and pistons resulting in the cycle being out of sequence and ultimately the skipped BF, then this would be my last post.

 

[Reach4]

I replaced the two micro switches on my 5600sxt and have had two successful regen cycles with the brine tank refilled. If this is FINALLY the solution to my “short cycling” where the motor starts and quickly stops after BD without advancing the gears and pistons resulting in the cycle being out of sequence and ultimately the skipped BF, then this would be my last post.

I certainly hope the fix fixes it all. You might fiddle with the switches, while using alligator clips to the terminals to connect to your ohmmeter. See if you can make a switch misbehave.

 

[JIm93022]

I'm a new member. I appreciate seeing this post because I have been struggling with a similar ER-1 issue with a single-tank 5600SXT recently. I installed it in early 2011. I have had five intermittent regeneration failures during the past six months, each resulting in error code 1 after the control returns to service mode. Troubleshooting indicates that the fault is intermittent. After the third failure, I stepped through the regen steps manually, and during the transition from Rapid Rinse to Brine Fill, the display showed “UD” in the upper left corner, and just as during an automatic regeneration, aborted and returned to service mode with the flashing error code 1. Following the fourth, I noticed that the brine tank had very little water, confirming that the error probably occurred at the beginning of the BF.

After reading the posts above, I will try cleaning the microswitch terminals before the next regen. Fingers crossed. Second, I also had a leak at the upper plunger about three years ago, and replaced it. No problems since. I hope that the similarity between my issues and rdsnake's is helpful to him, and to whoever helps owns one of these. I have had absolutely no luck contacting anyone at Fleck by phone or through their Web mail link.

 

[MCRinCA]

Hello Jlm:

I replaced the 2 microswitches on my 5600sxt about 6 weeks ago. I have had no instances of short cycling since. I am pretty convinced that was the source of my problem all along. Replacing them was VERY easy and cost less than $20. If cleaning contactors doesn't eliminate your intermittent issue, try replacing the switches. Below is where I purchased them.

https://www.arrow.com/en/products/v7-6b19d8/honeywell