Low Hot Water Pressure - new tank - dielectric

Users who are viewing this thread

DIYDIYDIY

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I just installed a brand new hot water tank in my home that was built 10 years ago - it has standard copper plumbing throughout the house. My old original tank was working OK, but because it was 10 years old, and could begin to have problems, I decided to replace it now so I could special order and then install a high quality 12 year warranty / propane / 50 gallon model. I live in a Rural setting on a county supplied rural water system - not a well. I have decent water pressure, but not extreemly high. In the past, with the old hot water tank, the hot water came out of all faucets at a slighly lower pressure then the cold did. I always attributed this slightly reduced hot water pressure to the fact that my water heater is in the basement, and the fact that you had to push the water through the tank and up to the next higher level would theoritically cause a slight drop in pressure at the hot water faucets. The new tank came equipped with very thin heat traps in both the inlet and outlet connectors, which look like thin washers that are cut / vented, etc... I guess the theory is the heat stays in the tank but the flaps "open up" when water flows through. The tank also came with what I believe are dielectric nipples - galvanized, with a blue plastic lining inside them. When I installed the tank I left the thin heat traps in place, and used the supplied nipples. After installing the new tank I noticed that my hot water pressure at all faucets was a bit less than I had with the old tank. It's not terrible pressure, but it's not blasing out either and it is defenetily a bit lower than I had with the old tank. The old tank was NOT connected with any sort of dielectric nipples or dielectric connectors, just standard copper unions connected to the water tank. I have checked the faucets and nothing is in them that would restrict the flow of hot water and I don't have anything blocking the inlet or outlet areas or connectors on the tank. I am thinking that it's possible that either those little thin flapped heat traps may be slightly restricting the flow into and/or out of the tank... or the reduced inside diameter of the nipples may be restricting the flow / presure. So, two questions:

1. Does anyone have any thoughts or actual experience in having reduced hot water pressure that they attributed to either those little flap style heat traps, or reduced inside diameter on fittings due to the dielectric inside coating?

2. If I decide to disconnect and try again, and get rid of the heat trap flaps, and go with connectors that do not have any compromises in the inside diameter, should I try brass nipples or the normal dielectric connectors. I have read pros and cons on "brass" vs. "dielectic couplers" when connecting hot water tanks to copper systems... either way would cost me about $10 per side, $20 total in parts.
 

Plumber Jim

Member
Messages
89
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Website
www.broomfieldplumber.com
I haven't noticed any problem like that with teh heat traps. What kind of shutoff valve do you have? a ball valve or maybe a gate valve. its possible if you have a gate that its stuck partly shut.
 

Ian Gills

Senior Robin Hood Guy
Messages
2,743
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
USA
Did you copper pipe to the nipples or did you use flexible stainless steel braided hoses? My (unconfirmed) impression of the flexible hoses is that they appear narrower in diameter on the inside than standard 3/4" copper pipe.

A narrower tube would reduce the flow rate.

On a related note, I removed one of my heat traps from my Bradford after the plumber melted it a bit. Another reason I wish these things were available to DIYers. Will running without heat traps cause any problems?
 
Last edited:

Cwhyu2

Consultant
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Cincinnati OH
Did you copper pipe to the nipples or did you use flexible stainless steel braided hoses? My (unconfirmed) impression of the flexible hoses is that they appear narrower in diameter on the inside than standard 3/4" copper pipe.

A narrower tube would reduce the flow rate.

On a related note, I removed one of my heat traps from my Bradford after the plumber melted it a bit. Another reason I wish these things were available to DIYers. Will running without heat traps cause any problems?
Heat traps. Not to my knowlage, but it will cause your W/H to be less
efficient.
 
Last edited:

DIYDIYDIY

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I am the original writer. My valve is in good shape and clear (ball type), and I used rigid copper - nothing flexible.

I appreciate the responses - in one of the responses, the phrase "tour w/h" is used - what does that phrase / initials refer to?
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,600
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
heater

The heat traps can malfunction and reduce the flow or create a high pitched howl when the water is used. But your decision to go with a,

high quality 12 year warranty / propane / 50 gallon model,

was flawed. What you got for paying extra was a standard quality 6 year heater with an added 6 year insurance policy/extended warranty.
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
Hj is again correct

I have had to take the littel balls out
of the Rheem heaters before becasue they
chatter and howl and stop up over time......


On the Bradford white units ,, I ALWAYS
remove them due to the restriction that I feel they
will cause over time.....
 

DIYDIYDIY

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
additional info from original writer - heat traps and 12 year warranty

I am the original writer. I do appreciate all of the replies.

With my tank the heat traps are very simple thin rubber type washers that are cut with diaganol flaps that "open up" when water flows thru them. I don't have the type of heat traps with any moving balls or other movable parts inside of them.

I think I will try and replace the plastic lined dielectric nipples with brass ones, and get rid of the small rubber washer type heat traps. I will post later if in fact that has a positive affect on my hot water pressure / flow.

Regarding the 12 year warranty tank - I don't necessarily disagree with the writer's view that said I paid a normal 6 year tank with an extended warranty. However, I did not pay a lot extra for this special order tank. Most Lowes / Home Depots, etc. don't carry much "in stock" in choices for propane models. The price on this special order 12 year warranty model, with 2" insulation, was only about $25 more than the price that the stores wanted for 50 gallon units they had in stock with just 6 years warranty and 1 inch insulation. So, for an extra $25 I got more insulation and twice the warranty length, which I considered to be a pretty good deal.
 

Redwood

Master Plumber
Messages
7,335
Reaction score
13
Points
0
Location
Connecticut
Extended warrantees are just like buying an insurance policy.
On many brands when we pick one up at the supply house they don't even ask what warrantee we want. They just price the 6 year.
If we were to ask for a 10 year all that would happen is they would charge us more for the exact same water heater.

Big Box stores have space to display items that confuse the customer into spending more for the best with the best warrantee.

Its really simple in most cases a water heater lasts 10 years. So when I install a 6 year water heater and it lasts 10 I fooled the warrantee company.
The real kicker is that they do not pay the installation cost so what are you really getting?
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,600
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
heater

Well, what they get, if the heater fails within the 10/12 year period is a replacement heater, with a warranty that only extends to the end of the original warranty period, and many times they also have to pay for processing paper work to get the new heater. I would not buy an extended warranty heater, but it is a crap shoot whether you need one or will benefit from the added cost. If the store is pushing the extended warranty heaters, they will price the regular ones high enough so that the "better" one seems like a good buy.
 

Gregmech26

Member
Messages
58
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Michigan
Hj is again correct.



On the Bradford white units ,, I ALWAYS
remove them due to the restriction that I feel they
will cause over time.....

On the Bradford White units, what do you replace them with after you remove the restriction?
Is it hard to replace on an existing 3-year-old Bradford White water heater (2014) or is it something that needs to be done during the initial install of the water heater?
 
Last edited:

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
Back in '98 when I bought a new State water heater, the extended warranty add-on package was just a pair of plastic lined nipples to replace the unlined ones. I guess they figured the original nipples would clog up before the 10 years was up. Tank sprung a leak just after the 10 year mark.

Next tank (GSW) had those stupid clunking heat traps with the balls that would stick quite often.
 

Gregmech26

Member
Messages
58
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Michigan
Back in '98 when I bought a new State water heater, the extended warranty add-on package was just a pair of plastic lined nipples to replace the unlined ones. I guess they figured the original nipples would clog up before the 10 years was up. Tank sprung a leak just after the 10 year mark.

Next tank (GSW) had those stupid clunking heat traps with the balls that would stick quite often.

The Bradford White water heaters, and several other models, now have factory installed built-in dielectric nipples / heat traps. As suggested earlier, I'm wondering what people replace those with? Do they really pose a significant restriction?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
The Bradford White water heaters, and several other models, now have factory installed built-in dielectric nipples / heat traps. As suggested earlier, I'm wondering what people replace those with? Do they really pose a significant restriction?
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/heat-traps says they have gone to a non-ball design.

Dialectric nipple has plastic inside. I presume that liner stays intact if somebody were to remove the heat trap. So I am thinking that when somebody says "remove" they did not mean they replaced it with something else.
 

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
AFAIK the ball style heat traps can be pulled out of the nipple without removing the nipple from the tank. Not sure if that exposed metal on the inside of the nipple or not.
 

Gregmech26

Member
Messages
58
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Michigan
Thank you. Half the plumbers I spoke to say removing the heat trap/ dielectric nipple will make no difference and is not recommended, while the other half say it will make a difference in water pressure. Hmmm....
 
Last edited:

Gregmech26

Member
Messages
58
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Michigan
I read that some plumbers like to replace the dielectric heat trap nipples with Stainless Steel flex, as the Dielectric nipples have been known to get 90% clogged.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
Dissimilar metals, and the effect gets worse when heated, generate an electrical current when in contact. That can literally cause the metals involved to chemically change (think battery). Most WH tanks are steel, with a lining. Plastic is an insulator, but installing it in galvanized pipe is a crap shoot as galvanization is not perfect, and the simple act of screwing it into the tank can compromise it leading to rust. Probably the better intermediate material is brass.

The goal of the heat traps is to limit convection heating of the water in the pipes - it is intended to save some energy by keeping the heat in the tank until you turn on a faucet.
 

Sylvan

Still learning
Messages
2,757
Reaction score
689
Points
113
Location
New York
I always remove the so called heat sink and just install a loop on the CW supply 27" as this will prevent stratification of hot water molecules entering the CW line and nothing mechanical to go wrong
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks