Loose green tea leaves blocking kitchen drain

[Robbie_d]

Hi,

HELP!?

I have been putting my used tea leaves down the kitchen drain for years without any issues - until this morning.

It blocked instantly.

Here is what i did so far:
- I plunged it over and over again. No change.
- I bought some $3.00 liquid drain cleaner from the dollar store and let it work for double the working time they recommended on the bottle.
Within a few minutes, there was a slight, foul smell in the kitchen caused by the liquid drain cleaner.

- After 30 minutes, i poured in the hot water and waited. There was no change.
- I plunged again and noticed a slight bleach smell. in the water
- I removed whatever water i could by scooping it out of the sink and into a bucket.

I knew that mixing drain-cleaner-chemicals in plumbing is not wise but i also knew the dollar store products are pretty cheap. I thought it would work on tea leaves. Okay, it didn't work.

- So knowing i would need to get this cleaner OUT of the drain if it didn't work (as the label said "do not leave for too long") and knowing i would need a better cleaner (or a snake), i decided to try to dilute whatever was left of the cheap drain cleaner which was still in the pipe. So, i filled up the sink with water and then plunged again and then emptied the sink again by scooping, like before. I did this twice. The water "didn't" smell strongly, if any, like chemicals anymore.

- Then i went to the hardware store and asked about a better drain cleaner.
I told them that i had already used a cheap dollar store brand, and also explained how i diluted the water a couple of times (as i explained).
The salesman strongly warned me NOT TO MIX his commercial brand with any other chemical.
I verified with him whether what i did when i "diluted" the water was sufficient or not, and he strongly recommended NOT to use his product, now. It said it's too late since i used the other product. He told me the pipes could EXPLODE because of the acid in his product reacting with whatever chemical residue is there, EVEN at the molecular level.
Then he suggested that i unscrew the cleanout cap on the pvc trap pipe to see if i can unclog it by there. I said i would try that.
He then showed me a 15-foot-snake for $20.00

- So, when i got home, i unscrewed the cap in the trap and the water poured out and went into the bucket i had prepared.

So it's obvious that the clog is past the trap.

In the photos in which i cleverly added text, i ask questions. Having some answers would be great in helping me unclog this clog.
Oh but i see i can only add URL's for images.
Hmm, can't i upload some images from my PC directly to the forum?

Thanks.
Robbie

 

[Reach4]

Hmm, can't i upload some images from my PC directly to the forum?

Shrink the photos to less than 200 kB and 800 pixels to upload, or put them on on another site, and put the link into your post.

Is your sink over a basement?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Robbie_d]

Shrink the photos to less than 200 kB and 800 pixels to upload, or put them on on another site, and put the link into your post.

Is your sink over a basement?

Hi

Thanks,

Ok, i have the photos in the first post.
My kitchen sink is on the second floor of a 4 unit apartment building.

 

[Reach4]

- So, when i got home, i unscrewed the cap in the trap and the water poured out and went into the bucket i had prepared.

So it's obvious that the clog is past the trap.

Not really. The trap should always contain water, even if there is no clog.


What is labeled 1 on some of your pictures is the drain cleanout. That gets unscrewed by turning the square counterclockwise. If you do it, use a big adjustable wrench or other big tool. Avoid gnawing on it with little tools.

Normally it is the landlord's job to clean out the drain pipes.

 

[Robbie_d]

Not really. The trap should always contain water, even if there is no clog.


What is labeled 1 on some of your pictures is the drain cleanout. That gets unscrewed by turning the square counterclockwise. If you do it, use a big adjustable wrench or other big tool. Avoid gnawing on it with little tools.

Normally it is the landlord's job to clean out the drain pipes.

Hi
Thanks.

Are you sure about the location of the cleanout drain?
I looked at google images to know what the cleanout drain looks like.
In my first photo "1", the cleanout drain cap is numbered as "2" which empties down into a pot i have below it.

The one numbered as "1", is sideways. I don't see how that could be the cleanout drain.

My lease states that plumbers' fees come out of the tenant's pocket.
I added a new photo and a question in image "1 e"

 

[Reach4]

Are you sure about the location of the cleanout drain?
I looked at google images to know what the cleanout drain looks like.

I am not a plumber, but that is a cleanout.

#2 is a drain for the trap, which prevents spilling as you disconnect the trap as discussed below.

Does water standing in the sink drain eventually? How fast?

I added a new photo and a question in image "1 e"

No is the answer. The top nut should unscrew CCW as viewed from the top, and the bottom nut as unscrewed from the bottom.

If somebody glued them, that was not normal.

In 1d.jpg, you can unscrew the banded coupler. Then try rodding into the galvanized. You should be able to take all of the plastic stuff off and be sure there is no clogging there.Replacing up to the galvanized is not that big of a deal, but once you hit the galvanized pipe, you probably not go beyond trying to stick a snake or maybe a drain bladder in there. Maybe negotiate with the landlord or find a new one.

I think you should not try unscrewing the metal pipe.

 

[Robbie_d]

Can there be two cleanout drains?
I have one below the trap (numbered as 2), but could i also have a second one (the one you said was the numbered as "1", the sideways one?).
I just now saw another google image which shows a different location for a cleanout on the pipe, where my "1" is located.

 

[Reach4]

Can there be two cleanout drains?

You are getting into semantics. Is that your intention? I could try playing that, but it seems non-productive.

#2 is not where you insert a snake normally.

 

[Robbie_d]

You are getting into semantics. Is that your intention? I could try playing that, but it seems non-productive.

#2 is not where you insert a snake normally.

Semantics? My intention? I have no idea what you mean.
I am just saying that i seem to have two cleanout drains, one at the bottom of the trap labeled "2" and another one on the pipe labeled "1".

To answer another question you had asked in another response:
No, there is no slow-draining of water from the sink. It was completely clogged within only a few seconds. I was beside myself when this happened because i do this all the time and i never had a clog, before.

Okay so "1" is where i should stick in a clothes hanger (or a snake) that's good to know because i was not able to enter the pipe by "2".

Changing landlord is not possible at the moment.

I just removed the two screwing couplers like in image "1 e" and i came to write that i did that.
When i am finished typing this all, i will try the clothes hanger in there. If that doesn't work, i will unscrew and enter the "1" cleanout.

When you mentioned removing the banded coupler in "1 d".....what is that, please?...i don't know what a banded coupler is.
And which pipe is the galvanzied one? I have no idea. I see PVC, and the iron pipe at the far right. Is the steel pipe in between the pvc and the iron pipe, the galvanized pipe?

Thanks

 

[Reach4]

To answer another question you had asked in another response:
No, there is no slow-draining of water from the sink. It was completely clogged within only a few seconds. I was beside myself when this happened because i do this all the time and i never had a clog, before.

And the water is still sitting there if you let it sit overnight.

When you mentioned removing the banded coupler in "1 d".....what is that, please?...i don't know what a banded coupler is.

It's the shiny thing with the two clamps, that connects the plastic pipe to the galvanized steel (metal) pipe.

I just removed the two screwing couplers like in image "1 e" and i came to write that i did that.
When i am finished typing this all, i will try the clothes hanger in there. If that doesn't work, i will unscrew and enter the "1" cleanout.

Could you then drop the trap (U-shaped piece) loose?

And which pipe is the galvanzied one? I have no idea. I see PVC, and the iron pipe at the far right. Is the steel pipe in between the pvc and the iron pipe, the galvanized pipe?

It is the steel pipe to the right of the banded coupler. The black plastic is on the left of the coupler. That is probably not PVC, but it is a plastic.

 

[Robbie_d]

Okay, i was able to drop the trap and i got the clothes hanger in there.
I had to push it all the way back to where the iron pipe is located. That is where it's clogged up.

I saw some tea leaves and what looks like black-muck at the tip of the clothes hanger. I dug and twisted the hanger a few times. and then put the trap back on and ran the water, and it's still clogged. I took the trap off twice and did that. Each time i then let the water out using the "2" cleanout, i poured the "black water" with debris down the toilet. Why put the trouble BACK down the drain, right?

This happened only this morning, so i don't know if it would drain any amount if left overnight. If i can't make any progress tonight, i will put water in the sink and see if any drains by morning.

For that banded coupler in image "1 d":
I see the rusty iron pipe on the right; then the "steel colored" pipe coming out of the iron pipe; then i see the steel colored pipe going into that odd grate-like stuff which is held on to it with the two clamps. That grate-like stuff (under the two clamps) Is that grate-like stuff (under the two clamps) banded coupler?; then i s,

And the water is still sitting there if you let it sit overnight.

It's the shiny thing with the two clamps, that connects the plastic pipe to the galvanized steel (metal) pipe.


Could you then drop the trap (U-shaped piece) loose?


It is the steel pipe to the right of the banded coupler. The black plastic is on the left of the coupler. That is probably not PVC, but it is a plastic.

 

[Robbie_d]

Okay, images are best.
Tell me what number is the banded coupler?...is it 3p?

And the galvanized pipe?...is it 2p, please?

Thanks

 

[FullySprinklered]

Tea leaves? That reminds me of a joke. I'll post it in the joke section over the weekend . I like to help whenever I can.

 

[Robbie_d]

Tea leaves? That reminds me of a joke. I'll post it in the joke section over the weekend if I can.

Well, they are GREEN tea leaves, if that makes any difference, at all. lol

 

[FullySprinklered]

Keep working it, Robbie. Hot water is often helpful, but running two gallons of cold water out the spout to get to the hot stuff is a waste of time. Run the cold water off into a bucket and then the subsequent hot water will have a chance to help loosen up the clog.
Turn up the water heater if you think that will help.
Zep gel from Home Depot will help make the clog more slimy and could help a little bit. The hand crank lavatory snake may also help, but more by pushing the clog into a larger pipe than actually removing the clog by snagging it and pulling it out sometimes.
There's three things for you. With a dash of patience you should be able to open up the drain.
Roots? You'll have to call somebody.

 

[Reach4]

Tell me what number is the banded coupler?...is it 3p?

Yes,

And the galvanized pipe?...is it 2p, please?

4P. Galvanized is short for galvanized steel.

2P is probably ABS pipe, which is a plastic that is used for drain pipes in many places where PVC might have been used in other places. The difference is not significant for most purposes, unless you are gluing it.

1Q is the tailpiece from the sink. It is probably 1.5 inch OD.
2Q is a slip joint nut that, together with a special washer and other parts, grabs around the tailpiece.
3Q is another slip joint nut. The slip joint nuts should not be glued. I think you would
I think 4Q is part of this P-trap.
5Q would be a little section of ABS pipe.

I would either

• undo the square-headed plug on the cleanout,
• or loosen the banded coupler, and slide 6Q+5Q+4Q to the left. Then you will get more access.

A coat hanger makes for a darned small tool. If your clogging material is close, maybe try a spoon after the banded coupler is off. If junk is farther, get a bigger cleanout snake I guess.

In a house where I have more control, I might try a Brasscraft drain bladder on the end of a garden hose. There would be water leakage. But that pressurizes plumbing. It seems possible that pressurizing drain pipe could push stuff into another apartment, and that would not be good, obviously.

 

[Robbie_d]

Yes,

4P. Galvanized is short for galvanized steel.

2P is probably ABS pipe, which is a plastic that is used for drain pipes in many places where PVC might have been used in other places. The difference is not significant for most purposes, unless you are gluing it.

Hi,
Thanks.
Aha, i see, now. Okay, so the galvanized pipe is THAT steel pipe.
The 2p must be PVC, if only PVC can be glued, because i think we can see glue-smudges on the 2p and the PVC pipe on it's left.

View attachment 43178
2Q is a slip joint nut that, together with a special washer and other parts, grabs around the tailpiece.
3Q is another slip joint nut. The slip joint nuts should not be glued. I think you would
I think 4Q is part of this P-trap.
5Q would be a little section of ABS pipe.

Like i've mentioned already, i was able to unscrew 2Q and 3Q and i removed the trap and got the clothes hanger in there. The clog seems to be right at the iron pipe (p5).
4Q is glued to 5Q so i can't remove 4Q, at all.

I would either

• undo the square-headed plug on the cleanout,
• or loosen the banded coupler, and slide 6Q+5Q+4Q to the left. Then you will get more access.

Oh, i did unscrew the square-headed cleanout "1", as well, but my clothes hanger was unable to get closer to p5 (iron pipe). When i enter by
4Q, it's better.
Going in by 4Q may, indeed, be a longer distance for the clothes hanger to travel but it's a straight line to the p5, which turns left into the wall.
Going in by "1" (square headed cleanout) is closer, but my clothes hangers can not pass through until it reaches the iron pipe - it seems to get jammed by the PVC joints.

For removing the banded coupler:
I am still wondering what is under the banded coupler. I don't want to remove it not knowing what's under it. Do you or anyone else have any ideas?
I wonder like this - if the pvc pipes (without threads) need glue to stay airtight, how can the banded coupler stay airtight with no glue or threads keeping it all airtight?

Is the galvanized steel pipe threaded on the inside and then screwed onto the iron pipe? I can't imagine anything else keeping them together.

A coat hanger makes for a darned small tool. If your clogging material is close, maybe try a spoon after the banded coupler is off. If junk is farther, get a bigger cleanout snake I guess.

In a house where I have more control, I might try a Brasscraft drain bladder on the end of a garden hose. There would be water leakage. But that pressurizes plumbing. It seems possible that pressurizing drain pipe could push stuff into another apartment, and that would not be good, obviously.

I checked out the drain bladder on youtube. Interesting.
I would have to insert it through my cleanout on the pipe (not the cleanout on the trap). But i wonder if i could get the bladder in, by there.

A coat hanger hangs, for free, in my closet. A 15-foot snake will cost me $20.00 plus tax.
A garden hose and a drain bladder will cost even more money.

I'll try the clothes hanger first and save myself the 20 bucks.

As i've mentioned earlier, the clog is right at the iron pipe, so a spoon won't do the trick.
I would like to remove the banded coupler and be right at the iron pipe where i am sure the clog is located.

UPDATE:
After i did all i've done, i put the system back together again and let some water into the sink to see if there was any small drainage happening, as you suggested. There was a slow drainage happening.
So, i added a bit more water to the sink and plunged for a few minutes hoping for the best, but nothing has moved since i plunged it.
Maybe by morning some drainage will have taken place (but i doubt any drainage will happen since i plunged it that last time)

I am learning about plumbing, today, wow!
Watching plumbing videos is not something i normally do. I'm enjoying it. If only i had a little more insight (or parents who paid attention) when i was younger, i might have chosen a field, like plumbing, in which to work.


Thanks for all your help, so far.
Robbie

 

[Robbie_d]

Keep working it, Robbie....

...Turn up the water heater if you think that will help.

Zep gel from Home Depot will help make the clog more slimy and could help a little bit. The hand crank lavatory snake may also help, but more by pushing the clog into a larger pipe than actually removing the clog by snagging it and pulling it out sometimes.

There's three things for you. With a dash of patience you should be able to open up the drain.
Roots? You'll have to call somebody.

Hi,
Thank you.
I don't have a "water heater" in the apartment.
I do have a stove and a large pot to boil some water to put into the drain, though.
So that should solve the hot water idea you've mentioned.

Zep gel? Hmm. Okay, i'll keep that in mind. I'll have to price it.

I am trying to avoid spending much money on this drain problem. I've already pissed away 3 bucks (+ tax) on that worthless dollar store drain cleaner. I almost spent 10 more dollars on a real drain cleaner but the guy in the stored had warned me NOT to mix drain cleaning chemicals.

I have no idea why you've mentioned, "Roots", and then telling me, "You'll have to call somebody."
What do you mean, please?

Robbie

 

[Reach4]

For removing the banded coupler:
I am still wondering what is under the banded coupler. I don't want to remove it not knowing what's under it. Do you or anyone else have any ideas?

They are often called shielded.
The metal outside is a sheet of metal that is wrapped around the rubber inside. https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/proflex-couplings https://missionrubber.com/products/

The rubber inside has little rings molded in. The metal and clamp parts squeeze the rubber tight to the pipes, and the rubber flexes to fill any irregularities.

Sliding the coupling on the pipes can take some force. When putting them on, it is usually good to lubricate with something like liquid hand dish-washing detergent.

I think it fair to say that most people don't use a torque wrench.

You could probably loosen one end more than the other, and leave the coupling on one of the two pipes. If you took the coupling off of the galvanized, and you decided to try a spoon, an iced tea spoon might work. It has a longer handle. Or stick the handle of some spoon or a knife blade in. Those won't turn the corner, of course.

For the short distance you want to go, a toilet auger might be a good thing to use. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Homeowner-Toilet-Auger-82-972-111/301879203

 

[Robbie_d]

They are often called shielded.
The metal outside is a sheet of metal that is wrapped around the rubber inside. https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/proflex-couplings https://missionrubber.com/products/

The rubber inside has little rings molded in. The metal and clamp parts squeeze the rubber tight to the pipes, and the rubber flexes to fill any irregularities.

Sliding the coupling on the pipes can take some force. When putting them on, it is usually good to lubricate with something like liquid hand dish-washing detergent.

I think it fair to say that most people don't use a torque wrench.

You could probably loosen one end more than the other, and leave the coupling on one of the two pipes. If you took the coupling off of the galvanized, and you decided to try a spoon, an iced tea spoon might work. It has a longer handle. Or stick the handle of some spoon or a knife blade in. Those won't turn the corner, of course.

For the short distance you want to go, a toilet auger might be a good thing to use. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Homeowner-Toilet-Auger-82-972-111/301879203

Hi,
Thanks for those links.

The toilet auger looks okay, but after I poured hot water into the drain today, i noticed that the whole line, right to the iron pipe, became hot.
So that tells me that the clog was moved by incorrect plunging - more "pushing down" than "pulling up".

This clog was in the trap at first. I know this because when I first emptied the drain and filled it up again, it needed less water. Now when I empty the drain and refill it, it takes more water.
I didn't know about undoing the connections when i first started this job - now it seems I've pushed the clog down into the iron pipe. I wonder how far down the iron pipe the clog could go.

The toilet auger might be too short if the clog is too deep. So I am starting to think that maybe I should go buy a long snake that allows me to attach my drill to it (I saw one like that on youtube).

I am about to pour more water into the drain.

I am wondering, will this clog eventually unclog itself if I keep plunging and using hot water and removing whatever crap comes back, in the water, when I empty the drain? Or will it become worse and worse?

I would be able to put a snake into the square headed-cleanout hole "1" and get to (or in) the iron pie. I won't have to remove the banded coupling in that case.
I am assuming that since the whole line got hot when i poured the boiling water into the drain that the clog went into the iron pipe. However, the steel pipe is attached the iron pipe which would conduct the heat into the iron pipe which might be the only reason why it got hot.
I can't be sure where the clog is but I know it's passed the steel pipe and right near (or inside) the iron pipe.
Still not sure what I should do.