City water chlorine - Big Blue Carbon vs Mixed Media vs Carbon Tank

[Google-fu]

Hi All:

I have gotten a few good quotes on water softeners now so just trying to determine the right path for removing city water chlorine. Its pretty bad at my location.

One proposal is for a tank that uses this mesh metal plate and devices that resin container into two. .66 cu ft of carbon. Hellenbrand.

Another proposal is to use two Big Blue canisters. The charge to install the "twin" 20'' big blue canisters is 375.00 which seems a little high.

No one wants to sell me a separate carbon tank...probably cause then I am getting in the 3k territory and they figure no one wants to pay that much.

 

[Reach4]

The $375 seems reasonable to me if it includes the hardware.

I suspect you have never clicked Inbox, above.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[ditttohead]

Do not use big blue... way too much cost to maintain, poor reduction, and a simple cost per gallon analysis will tell you it is a poor choice.
The divider plate is acceptable but not my favorite design. The .66 ft will work well for chlorine though more is preferred but not necessary. The problem with the divider plate is the difficulty and high cost of removing the resin when it needs changing. Most companies throw the tank away when it comes time. There are some other issues we have seen with the design but if I were choosing between that and 2 BB. I would go with the tank.

 

[Google-fu]

The $375 seems reasonable to me if it includes the hardware.

I suspect you have never clicked Inbox, above.

Ok..you lost me "inbox, above." ?

 

[Reach4]

Ok..you lost me "inbox, above." ?

 

[Google-fu]

View attachment 41980

Ok..long day. I got it! Thanks tons. Reaching out now to get this finalized. Two weeks researching is enough!

 

[intel2020]

My original design and a specific proposal had two big blue filters. Contact time to remove chlorine was the downside, therefore, I went with the 2nd tank with 2 cu ft3 of carbon before the softener - as you can see in your other post you have that has a link to my setup. Pretty much exact issues I needed to address (City water chlorine + hardness), perhaps much harder water though (21 gpG). My setup from below link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx_owtKNMuwKb0wyQmMycENaWEE/view

 

[Google-fu]

I am looking at 1 cu ft. Is there something I can use to measure. I know 1 cu ft of resin = around 32k grain.

 

[intel2020]

Not sure I understand your question. Sizing of system, as you probably know based on your research is based on many factors, but size typically looks at (assuming city water), hardness, # of people and use per day, and gpm flow (realistic of what might be used at same time). So are you asking how to measure literally 1 cu ft3 of resin or carbon? If so, it is sold in 1/2 and 1 cu ft. bags (or bigger). Or, are you asking for sizing of system based in grains of resin as it relates to cu ft. of material? Many water treatment web sites show this information.. So please clarify what you are looking for.

 

[Bannerman]

I know 1 cu ft of resin = around 32k grain.

Although you are correct that 1cuft of water softener resin has a total softening capacity of 32,000 grains, that has no relevance to chlorine removal. A softener where 100% of capacity is utilized, would require a large and inefficient quantity of salt each regeneration cycle.

A 1 cuft softener will require:
18 lbs salt to restore 32 K capacity = 1778 grains per lb salt efficiency
15 lbs to restore 30 K grains = 2000 grains/ lb
8 lbs to restore 24 K grains = 3000 grains/ lb
6 lbs to restore 20 K grains = 3333 grains/ lb

As you can see, high salt efficiency maybe attained by programming regeneration to occur using less salt while there is some capacity remaining. A 6 or 8 lb salt dose is recommended.

It is desirable to not regenerate more often than 1X per week when the softener is not required to remove iron. Will 20K or 24 K provide enough capacity for your weekly softening needs or will you need to obtain a larger softener? As your water is chlorinated, the softener will not be removing iron so a larger softener may go as long as 30 days between regen cycles without issue.

 

[Reach4]

A tank is commonly filled about 2/3 with media to allow space for backwash to fluff up the media bed. Here are some tanks that would be used with 1 cubic ft of resin or GAC.

9" x 40" 1.00 cu.ft.
9" x 48" 1.00 cu. ft. (maybe most common?)
10" x 35" 1.00 cu. ft.
10" x 40" 1.00 cu .ft.

Was that your question?

Or are you looking for how to dish out the media having bought a bigger bag? 1 cubic ft is 7.48052 gallons, or 1.5 5-gallon buckets.

 

[ditttohead]

I would recommend larger. You can increase the size by 100% for minimal cost. The performance of larger systems is well worth the extra few bucks.

 

[Bannerman]

Is there something I can use to measure.

I expect by this you are asking how to determine the size of water softener or filter appropriate for your home.

For a softener, you will need to determine the water's hardness at your location. Don't rely on your town's water report for average hardness. If the water is obtained from multiple sources, the hardness for each source can be significantly different. If your home is located close to a harder source, your water maybe harder than average. It is recommended to add 2-3 additional grains to what is actually tested, to anticipate some variance due to seasonal changes and distribution system maintenance.

If for example, the water tested at 10 grains per gallon at your location, you would then program 12 or 13 grains into the softener controller. Most households average 60 gallons usage per person per day but your water meter should provide your actual consumption. Using 60 gal/pp, if there are 4 occupants, then 60 X 4 X 13 gpg = 3,120 grains/day softening consumption.

A softener programmed to regenerate when 24K grains has been consumed, would then be expected to regenerate every 7 days (24,000 / 3,120 = 7.69 days). Although in this example, a 1 cuft softener would provide 1 week worth of capacity using 8 lbs salt, I would recommend installing at least a 1.5 cuft system as the larger softener would provide additional capacity for above average consumption such as an additional child or weekend guests. The larger system will also support a higher flow rate and would at least extend the regeneration frequency to 11 days. A 2 cuft system which Ditttohead suggested, would permit the option of using a 6 lb/cuft salt setting if desired, with a 12 day regen frequency.

For a GAC filter, sizing is not quite as straightforward to calculate. While chlorine can be effectively reduced with minimal contact time, other contaminants often require longer contact with the carbon media. A 1.5 cuft filter is usually the smallest recommended size for a point of entry filter, but you haven't stated your household water requirements or provided a link to your town's water report. That info could change the quantity or type of carbon that is recommended.

 

[Rmk9785e]

This thread has very valuable information about understanding and sizing a water softener system. Thank you.
Please accept my apologies for cross posting but the offer of a Water Conditioner (descaler) has raised the question whether it is an acceptable alternative to a Water Softener. This site says that there may be negative health affects of a salt based solution.
What is a layperson to do?

 

[Reach4]

What is a layperson to do?

You should figure out what you are trying to accomplish.

A softener will add some salt, and you may choose to drink unsoftened water. You can calculate the amount of sodium, and enter that into your dietary calculations. You could pipe a third line to the kitchen, or you could make the cold hard. Soft water has some nice benefits. It is really nice to wash with. It does not lime up your coffee pot.

The descaler may be useful if you are looking to protect your pipes, but it will not soften water.

Did you say if your city uses chlorine vs chloramine?

 

[Rmk9785e]

Did you say if your city uses chlorine vs chloramine?

I think it uses chloramines per page 8 of this water quality report.

 

[Bannerman]

Chloramine is chlorine and ammonia. Combined, they are more difficult to remove than chlorine alone, thereby typically requiring a substantial quantity of catalytic carbon. Activated carbon (GAC) is less effective for chloramine reduction.

A water softener is a tried and true method whereas non salt methods are often found to be less reliable.

While a softener will result in some sodium within the water, since a softener operates by ion exchange, the sodium quantity will be in proportion to the amount of hardness (calcium and magnesium) in the raw water. Any iron removed by the softener may also increase the sodium content. If concerned about consuming additional sodium, a Reverse Osmosis system could supply purified drinking water to one faucet at a reasonable cost.

 

[ditttohead]

Water softeners do not add "salt" to the water. A softener replaces calcium and magnesium in the water with sodium. There is typically minimal to no rise in the chloride level of the treated water. Here is a link to a short article that should help you understand the truth. Companies that promote salt free conditions use marketing to make claims about traditional softening. Softening companies claim the salt free solutions dont work. Both marketing claims have some merit but both are exaggerated.
https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/154-155

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/33