Lakos AccuPurge AP-75-MBV

[TVL]

After much looking around, I think I've decided I want to purchase and use the Lakos AccuPurge AP-75-MBV. This valve isn't cheap, but it is made by a reputable company and I feel it will most likely do a great job for my situation.

But, I do have a couple of questions from someone on this site that can supply the answers. If I were to encounter a leak around the seal, is the unit serviceable so that I could replace the seal?

If not, is there another similar model offered by someone else that has a replaceable seal?

Thanks!

 

[Craigpump]

Why not use a Sub K downhole over the pump?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TVL]

Why not use a Sub K downhole over the pump?

4" well ................... that won't work for me. Correct?

 

[Craigpump]

Sure won't

 

[TVL]

After further thought, I THINK I might go ahead and do things a little differently:

1- I would still like to use the Lakos Ap-75-MBV purge valve. I'm hoping the seal on the unit is serviceable should it begin to leak. At a price of about $500, I would certainly hope so. If someone knows for sure please let me know.

2- I THINK I'm going to remove the spin down filter I'm currently using and utilize one of the Lakos sand separators with the purge valve. However, I'm confused as to which I would need. There are two units on their website that are configured for the flow rate I need: the ILS-0075 and the SMP-10. The ILS-0075 is twice the price of the SMP-10. They're both stainless, they're both rated for 10-20 GPM, they both have 3/4" inlets/outlets. Can someone please tell me the difference and why I might want to consider the higher priced unit?

If someone can answer these two questions, I think I might be able to move forward. THANKS!!!

 

[Reach4]

www.lakos.com/_literature_178400/LS-748_Residential_Buyers_Guide makes makes some non-numeric comparisons.

 

[TVL]

www.lakos.com/_literature_178400/LS-748_Residential_Buyers_Guide makes makes some non-numeric comparisons.

Thanks Reach! I did not see that literature.

Anyway, it appears the higher priced unit (ILS-0075) is for higher volumes of sand, higher pressures and corrosive water. Unless I missed something and that is truly the only difference, I should be OK with the lower priced unit (SMP-10). The SMP-10 should easily handle about a tablespoon of sand each day for every 3600 gallons pumped, a 40/60 pressure switch setup and it can also handle corrosive water since it's stainless as well.

Unless someone doesn't agree or knows otherwise, I do believe the SMP-10 SandMaster is the best choice. The price is certainly better than the other!

 

[Valveman]

How deep is the well? You might be better off to fix the real problem and get a well that doesn't make sand than to keep spending money on Band Aids.

 

[TVL]

How deep is the well? You might be better off to fix the real problem and get a well that doesn't make sand than to keep spending money on Band Aids.

Valveman - the following post may shed a little more light:

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/4-year-old-well-does-this-mean-anything-at-all.70207/

1- I did raise the pump 20 feet, so it is now about 13 feet below the static level. This didn't seem to help eliminate the sand much at all.

2- I doubt the original well driller will come back out after 4 years - although it has pumped sand the entire period. I should have called earlier, but I just thought this was a common problem with a "sand" well.

3- Finally, I'm just trying to deal with what I have. Since the sand issue isn't extreme, I feel the sand separator and purge valve will help relieve me from having to check things so often.

PS: the filter was clogged again this morning with what appears to be "driller's mud". Just a light coating on the filter, but enough to prevent water from passing through. This has occurred 6 times this year ............ this is the first year that has occurred!

Oh and by the way, this well is used for lawn irrigation only - about 3600 gallons per day AND about a tablespoon of sand per day!

 

[Valveman]

A spoonful of sand everyday adds up quickly. And it is hard to filter out the fine stuff like clay or drilling mud. A sand well should be gravel packed correctly to keep the sand out. A good gravel pack on the outside of the casing makes the best filter.

Raising the pump doesn't help when the sand is coming from the top of the well. When you are pumping, the water level in the well drops. This lets the sand up top dry out and it will sluff off and come into the water.

Your pump is already enduring the sand. You just as well remove the filters and flush the sand out the sprinklers. You will need sprinklers and zone valves that can handle the sand, but you won't have to worry about drilling mud stopping up a filter.

 

[TVL]

A sand well should be gravel packed correctly to keep the sand out. A good gravel pack on the outside of the casing makes the best filter.

Valveman or anyone else that would care to comment:

I'm assuming there is no way to properly gravel pack a well that is 4 years old. I'm also assuming this is something that must be done while the bore hole is still open and before sealing the top. Are these assumptions correct?

If so, then the only way to help remedy my issue is:

1- dig a new well - lots of cash

2- deal with the tablespoon of daily sand up top - which is much cheaper

I would agree that the BEST course of action would be to have a water well that does NOT produce any sand. However, and I don't like it, I have what I have. So, I'm trying to make the best of a less than ideal situation.

If there is a way to properly gravel pack an existing four year old 4" well, please let me know!

 

[VAWellDriller]

Valveman or anyone else that would care to comment:

I'm assuming there is no way to properly gravel pack a well that is 4 years old. I'm also assuming this is something that must be done while the bore hole is still open and before sealing the top. Are these assumptions correct?

If so, then the only way to help remedy my issue is:

1- dig a new well - lots of cash

2- deal with the tablespoon of daily sand up top - which is much cheaper

I would agree that the BEST course of action would be to have a water well that does NOT produce any sand. However, and I don't like it, I have what I have. So, I'm trying to make the best of a less than ideal situation.

If there is a way to properly gravel pack an existing four year old 4" well, please let me know!

Gravel pack is installed in annular space when borehole is open...nothing you can do now. I've read your posts before about the construction of the well and the previous well....it doesn't sound like it is all that big of a problem, so I wouldn't overthink it....The auto purge valve will do fine and you can then leave it alone. If the spin down filter you have now is working ok, I wouldn't even buy the lakos filter.....I would just add the purge valve.

 

[TVL]

I've read your posts before about the construction of the well and the previous well....it doesn't sound like it is all that big of a problem, so I wouldn't overthink it....QUOTE]

Thanks for commenting VAWellDriller !!!!!!

Whether you read this part or not in some of my previous post, our original well that was drilled in 1978 and lasted to 2013 also pumped a little sand. The reason I know this, is I now recall the sprinklers always getting slower with age and sometimes binding as the sand wore on the swivel joint. Then in 2010, when we installed an irrigation system, I also installed a filter which was highly recommended for irrigation systems. The spin down filter allowed me to see just how much sand used to pass through the hoses and sprinklers. I now realize I was getting approximately the same amount of sand then as I do now.

My point is, even with two different well drillers and two different wells, I getting some sand from both wells. Maybe neither was gravel packed properly or maybe it's simply the type of sand. I do know from looking at the sand, it is extremely fine. I'm also of the belief, that is what caused issues with the first well. Over its 35 year life span, the slotted screen became partially plugged which led to low water yield.

Anyway, just my thoughts!

PS: Just before drilling a new well, I replaced the 18 year old Sears pump with a F&W pump. As stated above, the old well also pumped some sand. I took apart the pump end on the old pump before discarding and following is a photo of one of the impellers. They all looked ROUGH, and the pump certainly wasn't pumping the amount of water that it should! What I discovered back then over the following days was 1) the pump wasn't able deliver the proper amount of water to run the irrigation system because of worn impellers AND 2) the well was no longer able to supply enough water either. It just so happened that all of this occurred at the same time!

 

[TVL]

********** UPDATE **********

About a month back I installed a Lakos sand separator and the AccuPurge valve I had been asking questions about earlier in the summer. The sand separator does an excellent job of removing any fine sand that is being pumped (about 2 tablespoons daily or every 3600 gallons pumped). As a matter of fact, I re-installed the Vu-Flow spin down filter I had been using in the past downstream of the sand separator. After about 4 weeks of use, the spin down filter had a VERY small trace of sand in the bottom. Therefore, it appears the sand separator is removing 99.99% of all sand ................ which is excellent! The Vu-Flow filter didn't even need cleaning after a month of use!!!!

And, the Accu-Purge valve does an excellent job of automating the daily purge process. Things are so much better now!

As a side note: After watching things closely ever since this well was drilled 4 years back and making good notes, I have learned the 4 inch well casing is being filled with sand at the rate of about 1 foot per YEAR. The pump currently sits 20.5 feet from the bottom. Therefore, after an additional 20 years of use, sand will reach the bottom of the pump. I will be keeping an eye on this in the future. Maybe there is a method I can use to blow out the sand every few years, but I don't know what that method might entail. Any ideas for a homeowner?

 

[Reach4]

Maybe there is a method I can use to blow out the sand every few years, but I don't know what that method might entail. Any ideas for a homeowner?

The fast professional way is to blow air from a big compressor (maybe 275 CFM) down maybe a 1 inch pipe. The sand and water erupt up like a geyser.

The slower way needs a much smaller compressor and an air lift pump. I don't know if your static water level is high enough for that. You would need to do some reading. Look for the term "submergence ratio".

 

[VAWellDriller]

absolutely beautiful work.....

Why do you think you are filling the well at a ft a year? I would doubt you are filling at all; sounds like you have enough uphole velocity that you are pumping out what the screen is letting by.

 

[TVL]

1- I tend to be somewhat of a perfectionist, but I didn't think it would be so obvious. But in all seriousness, I do appreciate the compliment.

2- "Why do you think you are filling the well at a ft a year?" :

2A: The well was drilled in June 2013. On that day, I took a measurement from the top of the well casing to the very bottom of the well and the measurement yielded 151 feet.

2B: In May of 2016, I removed the submersible pump so that I could raise it 7 feet. On that day, I took another measurement from the top of the well casing to the very bottom of the well and the measurement yielded 148 feet.

2C: In June of 2017, I removed the submersible pump so that I could raise it another 13 feet. On that day, I took another measurement from the top of the well casing to the very bottom of the well and the measurement yielded 146 feet and 11 inches.

Therefore, based on the math, I'm assuming the well is filling with sand at a rate of 1 foot per year. In the beginning, the well driller had the pump just off the bottom because of what appeared to be low yield. However, the yield just kept improving, thus the reason I now have it about 21 feet off the bottom. Hopefully or possibly this will help with sand accumulating inside the well casing???????

The pump is now approximately 16 feet below the static water level. I really do NOT want to raise it any further. During a drought, I may need this buffer!

 

[VAWellDriller]

Excellent record keeper too! I don't think raising the pump will make much difference in how much sand you either accumulate or pump. You may find that the sand will reach a natural equilibrium in the well.....and you may find that it will continue to rise. Airlifting is probably the best option to remove the fill. Since its relatively shallow I think you could rent a towable 185 cfm and get a roll of 1" poly pipe. It won't be a great lift because of the little bit of submergance you'll have but it should get it done.

 

[TVL]

Reach4,

1- My static water level is 111 feet. I am very curious to learn about the air lift pumps. I do have a small compressor that is rated for: 4.0 SCFM delivered @ 90 PSI , 4.0 Gallon tank and 125 max PSI - Is that too small???

2- Do the air lift pumps come in different sizes?

I will do further research, but just trying to get some quick answers.

Thanks!!!!!!

 

[TVL]

Thanks again VAWellDriller!

I have just one very simple question for you: At what point would you recommend I airlift the well? Naturally, this is something I don't want to do until it becomes necessary, but I certainly don't want to wait too long and encounter other issues. I'm assuming you will indicate once the sand reaches a certain depth, but I have no idea how long I can OR should wait.

Thanks again!