How many people use CSV's and small tanks?

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Valveman

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I thought this might be interesting to some people. Cycle Stop Valves, Inc. is a small company. I still test nearly every CSV myself. The picture below is the batch I tested this morning. This is our busy time of year, and we will send out this many CSV's nearly every day, and have been doing so since 1993. The quantity is much less in the winter months. But we still average 20,000 to 30,000 valves a year. This is where I get my experience. Working with 30,000 water systems a year I get to see a lot of things that people who only install a couple hundred a year never get to see in their lifetime. And most of those 30,000 systems a year we see are problem systems, where the pump, tank, or other parts of the system did not last very long. So not only do we get the experience from 30,000 systems a year, but we get the experience of all the worst cases. These are the cases where a big pressure tank or three did not solve the problem. We also use CSV's to replace many, many VFD's every year, after the homeowner gets tired of all the problems with VFD, and starts looking for an alternative. Many people also install CSV's to solve water hammer problems, or just to get stronger pressure for showers or sprinklers. Frequent failures with check valves, pressures switches, relays, and other things are also reasons people use Cycle Stop Valves.

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VAWellDriller

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Seems like a lot of valves to test.....if you test every one then that's a full time job on it's own.

Wanted to know why you quit selling the 1" plastic valves??? I have problems with your replacement plastic 1.25" valves cracking (not from overtightening)....but never had a problem with the 1" plastic; had to go to Barrett to get the old style. I didn't really like the 1" adjustable valve because of the high head loss....ie...I'd set it up for 50 PSI 3 gpm shower going ...then when the irrigation would open up to 15 gpm not I've got 40 psi.
 

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Have to set the adjustable 10 psi higher. Sorry about the cracking. Won't happen again. Can't break the new ones no matter how tight you get them. Giving 2 for 1 on cracked valves. New plastic now stronger than heck. Just call me.

Can test plastc valves 3 per minute. CSV1A takes a minute a piece.
 
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VAWellDriller

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I install a valve on every residential well I drill. Use 20 gallon tank and a 1" valve installed in the well. CSV doesn't make the 1" plastic valves any more, but Barrett Pump stop does, and the 2 gpm bypass works well with a 20 gallon tank; might not do so well with small tank but I don't know. I put in a couple sidekicks, but 1) no matter what I said the customer felt like I was trying to get over on them giving them a smaller tank, and 2) I don't really like the adjustable 1" CSV due to high head loss and variation in pressure. Also with the small tank, you have to mount it. It's not really that big deal, but it is just one more step.
 

Valveman

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All the years I made a 1" valve for those 1 to 25 gpm systems installers complained that all they use is 1 1/4 pipe, and they didn't like having to use bell reducers to attach a 1" valve. So I finally made them all 1 1/4" threads, now they are complaining that I no longer make 1" valves. Go figure.

It is much easier to use a 1 1/4" x 1" threaded bushing if you have 1" pipe, than the other way around.

Barrett does not make any valves. He just buys them from someone else, drills a hole in them, and puts a sticker with his name on them.

He has to drill a 2 gpm hole, because any smaller would clog up even quicker than the 2 gpm hole does.

We do not use a drilled hole, which is why we can make a 1 gpm bypass. This allows the use of a smaller tank, and won't let the pump cycle when using less than 2 gpm the way the other guys valves do.

We have made several improvements to our new CSV over the old style. Since we got the plastic where it is really strong now, you won't have any problems.

We have doubled the holding weight over the old style valve, improved the venting, and dropped the price by 60%. The 1 1/4 valve will work up tp 50 gpm, instead of just 25 gpm, and cost less than the old style 1" valves.
 
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VAWellDriller

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Just for the record, who did invent the 1" plastic valve that barrett still sells? I've heard a few different stories over the years (never really known the truth) and seems like that identical valve shows up from several different suppliers with the difference being the bypass method if any. So it seems like one place is making them and everybody else buys it and modifies it to their own desired function.

I used your 1" valves for a long time (never complained), until they weren't available....for me, it's easiest to match drop pipe and valve size, and I have a method of installing the valve in a 4 or 4.5" well with a pitless; the space is really tight but it works. When your switch came a couple years ago, I bought 5 and had 3 crack out of the 5. After the first cracked, I was extra careful not to overtighten the next 2 and also installed a hose clamp around the connection, but they still cracked after a couple months. So then I started with Barrett since he still had the old valve. Flomatic is selling a stainless steel version of the original plastic valve right now too, but it's a lot more expensive and I never had problems with the plastic. Have you changed the formula of the plastic in the new 1.25" valves since they first came out?
 

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We have 5 patents on the Cycle Stop Valve. All others are just copies. We have been the leaders in constant pressure technology since 1993.

I only made one batch of CSV125 valves in 2014 before I discovered the cracking problem. I thought I got most of them recalled from the distributors. And they were supposed to replace them with the improved valves, two for one to make up for your trouble. Some just used it as another excuse to say "see I told you they didn't work and you need to be using drives". I think that is funny with as many drives as have been recalled or should have been over the years.

I think you will really like the new CSV125 valves. You can take the coupling off in a tight well and they will still hold a working weight of 1200+ pounds. It takes well over 5,000 pounds to break them. And I have yet to be able to split one, even with a 36" and a galv nipple screwed in until it bottomed out. I couldn't even strip the threads out. PM me or give me a call and I will send you a few bodies to try and break, and some good ones to make up for your trouble.

I got into injection molding about 10 years ago because I could see this coming. I knew one day I would have to compete with the very people and factories I taught how to make the CSV. I made a few mistakes, but that is the best teacher. Now we make the biggest part of all CSV's ourselves. We started making the CSV1A ourselves several years ago. It took a little time to get the bugs out, but now we don't have any problem with that valve. We also use the CSV1A as a pilot on all of our larger valves. We now make the CSV125 all by ourselves, and I believe we got the bugs out of them as well. Every valve I have made took a couple years to work out the bugs. That is the part the copy cats don't have to go through.
 
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VAWellDriller

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We did make them in lead free as forced by the government, which is what caused the copper flaking problem. We could have make them is SS, but they would have been much more expensive. And as VA said a metal valve is not needed as the plastic is plenty strong. The metal valves just have a lot more pressure loss than the plastic. Now that we have the bugs worked out of the plastic valve, I am sure everyone will see the advantages of the flow characteristics and price.

Good the bugs are worked out...as I said about, I bought 5 when you first switched, had 3 crack pretty quick....couldn't remember where the other 2 were until today. FD
Have to set the adjustable 10 psi higher. Sorry about the cracking. Won't happen again. Can't break the new ones no matter how tight you get them. Giving 2 for 1 on cracked valves. New plastic now stronger than heck. Just call me.

Can test plastc valves 3 per minute. CSV1A takes a minute a piece.


Well....like I said, bought 5 valves when they first came out (the ones with the bad plastic). I though
We did make them in lead free as forced by the government, which is what caused the copper flaking problem. We could have make them is SS, but they would have been much more expensive. And as VA said a metal valve is not needed as the plastic is plenty strong. The metal valves just have a lot more pressure loss than the plastic. Now that we have the bugs worked out of the plastic valve, I am sure everyone will see the advantages of the flow characteristics and price.


Glad the bugs are worked out now....
Like I said, I bought 5 back when you first made the switch; I knew where the first 3 were when they failed pretty quick. I couldn't remember where I put the others. Well, I found valve #4 this morning when I had a no water call and found a pump sitting at the bottom of a well because the CSV cracked and failed. Fished it out ok, but was a real pain. It really would have been nice to have a recall or technical bulletin to the customers/distributors way back when the bad plastic was first discovered and fixed.....oh well.
 

Valveman

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We tried to recall that batch. Thought we got most of them. Sent info to all disttibutors. Even this thread is from back in June of 16. Sorry again for the problem. Call me or email and I'll make it up to you. Can't break the ones made for the last couple of years.
 

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I know this is an old thread but I am really thinking about adding one of the CSVs to my system. I have a la Roger pressure tank, which is 40 gallons style I think. Can I still use the CSV? Also I have one inch PVC and Chlorine injection ahead of the pressure tank. Does this present an issue?
 
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