Removing iron closet flange

[CubGirl]

hi... i removed the subfloor around the flange (improper floor install) and now i want to remove the old flange.

i'm confused as to what i have exactly. it looks like something is attached to the cast iron pipe. is that some sort of riser? do i remove just the flange or the entire piece attached to the "bend", i.e., the cast iron pipe?

here are 3 pictures... i'm thinking of using a rockwell oscillating tool to cut off the flange. would that work?? i know to be careful and not damage the pipe, but i'm not sure what the big thing attached to it is or what to do exactly.

thank you guys for your help. i appreciate it a lot.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Everything above the pipe is part of the flange.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[CubGirl]

ok, so the entire thing has to come off. any idea how i go about getting it off? will it just pull off with a slide hammer? thanks!

 

[Smooky]

You could rent a snap cutter:
https://www.google.com/search?q=cas...BC4QQyjcIYw&ei=FmcQV6KYLIrMmwH6gqygCA#imgrc=_

Most of the time I use a cut off wheel in an angle grinder to cut cast iron

 

[hj]

I would use a hammer and chisel, but you probably have to drill out the lead between the flange and the pipe.

 

[CountryBumkin]

I'm curious about this flange is constructed. "Just want to learn".

Does then flange slide over the cast pipe to where the top of the pipe is even with the top of the flange (then its soldered in)?
IF yes, then you would cut the old flange off at the "red" line and break away the old flange, so you would have enough of the old pipe remaining to slip a new flange over it. If you cut at "yellow" line, how does the new flange attach.

 

[Cwhyu2]

I'm curious about this flange is constructed. "Just want to learn".

Does then flange slide over the cast pipe to where the top of the pipe is even with the top of the flange (then its soldered in)?
IF yes, then you would cut the old flange off at the "red" line and break away the old flange, so you would have enough of the old pipe remaining to slip a new flange over it. If you cut at "yellow" line, how does the new flange attach.
View attachment 33843

The flange attached by what we call lead poured joint using okum first then pour molton lead and pack it with a caulking iron, I would use the angle grinder and cut the flange horizontely as it look like there is room to do that and it should break away from the pipe.

 

[MKS]

Could you clean the existing flange up, determine how low it is and ask if there is an acceptable diy friendly repair.
Reach4 made some suggestions.
There are a lot of these threads on this site.
If you do cut I like the chisel suggestion. It maybe hazardous to your hands but I had a friend set a house on fire from grinding.

 

[CubGirl]

i don't know the answer to where it should be cut. cacher_chick said the entire unit that's attached to the bend is the flange. if so, the lead soldering might be at the base of the flange at the bend??

i think the old flange (the 6" long flange thingy) is made of cast iron. so if i cut off the old flange (the part that bolts to the floor) and leave the cast iron pipe part of the flange intact, i'm thinking maybe i could get one of those oatey replacement flanges for cast iron. like this one: http://www.oatey.com/products/drain...flanges/twist-n-set-replacement-closet-flange

it shows ABS plastic but they have a 4" cast iron one if you check out the list, but it looks like i could use any material...

 

[Asktom]

You would cut from the yellow line up to the top of the flange. The pipe goes through the middle all the way to the top. Between the pipe and the flange (at the top) you will see a ring of lead, which is what others talked about drilling out. Below the lead will be oakum (oiled rope, sort of). If you drill and pick out the lead and oakum the flange will pull straight up and off.

For the new ring they make ones that clamp to the pipe by tightening bolts on the top, or, you could caulk in a ring the way yours is now. I prefer to caulk them in because the subfloor can be cut closer to the pipe which makes it easier to get a secure hold when you screw down the flange. The clamp type is probably easier for a DIYer, but watch to make sure you don't just have air under the screw holes in the flange, I have seen the clamp types pull off when not secure to the floor.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I don't beat on anything with a chisel and hammer, but HJ has been practicing this for many years longer than me.
I have removed these by drilling and picking out the lead from the top, where it was originally poured. It takes the right sized bit, a lot of holes in the lead, and a lot of patience.

In your case, the riser will be likely to be too short for a new flange on top of the finished floor, so I would cut or snap the pipe off at the base of the flange, and then use a banded coupler to install a new stub of pipe long enough to install a new flange on top of the finished floor.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I'm curious about this flange is constructed. "Just want to learn".

Does then flange slide over the cast pipe to where the top of the pipe is even with the top of the flange (then its soldered in)?
IF yes, then you would cut the old flange off at the "red" line and break away the old flange, so you would have enough of the old pipe remaining to slip a new flange over it. If you cut at "yellow" line, how does the new flange attach.
View attachment 33843

If I were going to cut the flange off, I would make one cut up each side vertically and split it off that way.

 

[Asktom]

You do want to weaken the flange vertically and bust it off, or, drill the lead and oakum and pull it off. I would make no horizonal cuts, keep it simple. Closet rings are available in different lengths: 2", 4", or 6". It looks like yours is a 4x4' but there is plenty of room even if the floor raises a couple (or drops a couple) inches. Saving the pipe that goes up the center of the flange is the goal.

If you use a caulk closet ring you don't have to go old timey (which is to say legal, many places) and use melted lead. Here is the deal, you pack in the oakum then either pour in melted lead or something like Black Swan SOIL-O. When oakum gets wet it expands. That is the seal. Lead or SOIL-O just keeps the oakum in place. You would need to hammer in the lead to make it tight.

 

[CubGirl]

ok thanks everybody. i think i'm going to try to remove the lead and oakum with a drill. my understanding, based on all the feedback here, is the flange will come off and i'll be left with a 4" cast iron pipe about the same height of what's already there. once i get the old flange off, i can gauge the pipe's height to determine what kind of replacement flange to get.

i saw a video on lead removal so i think i can do it. thank you for your help.

 

[Smooky]

If that flange is attached to a little section of pipe that is leaded into the hub, then yes you could drill out the lead and see what you can do. You could cut vertical lines in the old flange for easy removal and then remove the lead.
I like to use a cast iron flange or a flange with a stainless ring that can be attached to the floor. The plastic rings on some toilet flanges, bend or break too easy, which causes toilet movement and that will cause sewer odor to escape. Here is a big selection of toilet flanges of all types:
https://www.plumbingsupply.com/toiletflanges.html
http://www.jonesstephens.com/?s=closet+flange&per_page=60

 

[Cool Blue Harley]

Cut hub at yellow line. Grinder works best but finish with sawzall where clearance is a problem. Use CP 44 to connect old iron to new NH iron. Flip CP 44 around to best fit old and new iron as they will have slightly different dimensions. New iron riser should be above subfloor, flush with finish floor. Install subfloor. Install 4x2 insta-set closet flange on new NH riser. Bottom of flange must be even with finish floor. Secure flange to subfloor with three tap con screw, through holes in flange, using small copper pieces of pipe to maintaine space between bottom of flange and subfloor. Install finish floor.

 

[CubGirl]

so, i removed the old flange. it was soooooo easy. took me about 5 minutes. here is what's left. the pipe looks jagged but it was like that. i'm going to get a replacement flange after i put in the floor. specifically, the white one in the pics.

thank you everybody. your support and info gave me the courage to do this myself.

 

[Cool Blue Harley]

That'll work. Good job. The four holes in the flange, not the slots for the closet bolts, are for securing it to the sub-floor. You are relying on the black rubber compression ring for a water tight seal inside the old iron pipe. You don't want the entire assembly to lift up later, when you are installing the WC and tightening the closet bolts. Thus the four holes to attach it to the floor before you set the toilet.

 

[CubGirl]

hi... yes i'm going to cut a 4" hole in some OSB, secure it to the 2x6's, put in my floating vinyl floor, then put in this new flange. i'll secure it to the pipe with the 3 inside screws and then secure it to the floor with 4 bolts. the bolts come with the new flange even though they're not in the picture.

i think the new toilet comes with a wax ring and closet bolts. i think it's a good repair job and pretty proud of myself! without this forum, i could not have done this.

thanks for your help!
cubby

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Sometimes the inside of old cast iron pipe is not smooth enough to get a good seal with that type of flange. Scour the inside of the pipe with wire brush, sandpaper, etc. to see if it will clean up before going any further. The inside of the pipe where the rubber gasket seats must be smooth for it to make a good seal. If it leaks, you will have a problem with sewer gas leaking back into the space.