Toilet won't stay unclogged

[Jodebg]

When we built our house 28 years ago, we installed 3 Kohler toilets.

Two have worked fine. The third toilet has several long standing issues.

First it won't stay unclogged. We try not to use it for solid waste an avoid
putting much bathroom tissue in it. Never kleenex or papertowels, etc..
And still it clogs frequently and we have to use a plunger.

On occasion, it will operate improperly by filling to the top ( after flushing)
and then drains slowly. And often, after doing this, it will not fill back up to the normal
water level in the bowl-water level stays very low.

Your advise will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

New toilet, unless you have a sentimental attachment to the problem toilet.

However if you want to fix it, then describe the problem a bit more. When the water rises to the "top" do you mean that water flows over the overflow at that point? That symptom would call for the replacement or repair of the fill valve (the thing with a float).

You continue with "And often, after doing this, it will not fill back up to the normal
water level in the bowl-water level stays very low." Bowl fill is also the job of the fill valve. So new fill valve could be the cure.

But that is not going to help clogging. Get a new toilet with a smooth trapway. If the style is OK with you, you can get one where you can see the trapway path outside of the toilet. If you want something with a different style, say so.

Note that the tile on a toilet should go under the toilet too. If your tile floor just butts up against the toilet base, and if you were not going to redo that floor anyway, you could get a toilet with a base bigger than the old one.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jodebg]

New toilet, unless you have a sentimental attachment to the problem toilet.

However if you want to fix it, then describe the problem a bit more. When the water rises to the "top" do you mean that water flows over the overflow at that point? That symptom would call for the replacement or repair of the fill valve (the thing with a float).

You continue with "And often, after doing this, it will not fill back up to the normal
water level in the bowl-water level stays very low." Bowl fill is also the job of the fill valve. So new fill valve could be the cure.

But that is not going to help clogging. Get a new toilet with a smooth trapway. If the style is OK with you, you can get one where you can see the trapway path outside of the toilet. If you want something with a different style, say so.

Note that the tile on a toilet should go under the toilet too. If your tile floor just butts up against the toilet base, and if you were not going to redo that floor anyway, you could get a toilet with a base bigger than the old one.

Reach4-

If I am reading your reply correctly, the solution to continued clogging
requires a Replacement of the toilet.

Any advise on brand and style?

Not sure what you mean "where you can see the trapway path outside the toilet?"

Thanks for your help!

 

[Terry]

You may have something lodged in the trapway.
Pick up a closet auger and see if you can push what is in there, out.
Sometimes you need to pull the bowl, and auger from the bottom. A bowl that fills to the top has a problem. I'm surprised that you have lived with this for so long. I wouldn't have the patience.

If you pick up a new toilet, then maybe something like TOTO, American Standard Cadet or Kohler Wellworth.
We sell a lot of the TOTO Drake and Entrada, and of course the other brands too.

 

[Gary Swart]

You may have one of the first editions of Kohler low flow toilets. These were dogs to be blunt. There has been a huge revolution in toilets in the past 28 years. You would do well to get a new version. Toto was the lead in these advances, but some of the other brands are catching up. Toto is still an excellent choice.

 

[TheUniversalDave1]

If you have a Water-Guard (the last 3.5 gallon model), then there could be mineral deposits in the trapway. The trap on these is unglazed, which does not help performance. In my collection, I have a 1989 Wellworth Water-Guard in near mint condition, and I'll tell you right now, it is NOT my best performer. I'd replace it with a brand new Wellworth or Cimarron. Either one will perform MUCH better.

 

[Jadnashua]

It is also possible that the toilet itself is fine, but there's an issue with the drain pipe underneath it. If it has an obstruction in it, or is sloped improperly, the toilet will not be able to work right. More likely, though, is something caught in the trapway. You may have more than one problem. The fill valve and flapper are what determine the fill level of the toilet, and if those have been replaced with an incorrect version, it may not refill the toiler properly. That would have nothing to do with it clogging, but it would about flushing waste.

 

[WJcandee]

I replaced my horribly-performing Kohler a few years ago, after agonizing about whether it would really make things better. I wish I had done it years earlier. I bought a Toto Drake CST744S, and it is amazing. Today, I would try the Toto Entrada elongated toilet. Great flush, uses only 1.28 gallons per flush, and is eligible for rebates from your water company in many jurisdictions. You can look at Terry's sales site above to see what a fair price on these toilets is. You will need to check certain specifications which we can help you with to make sure a standard toilet will fit -- usually they do but sometimes they don't, and we can help you.

 

[Plumbs Away]

Advising you, right off the bat, to buy a new toilet, is just bad advice. I gathered from your post that the water level issue is with the bowl and not the tank, as I think it was interpreted by someone else. It seems that you have a drain line problem, with the water filling to the top. I've pulled many a toilet that didn't flush properly to find a toothbrush (most common culprit) or some other object lodged in the trapway. If you can't pull anything out with an auger, pull the bowl and auger it from the bottom. It sounds, though, that you have a bigger obstruction in the main line. In that case, a new toilet won't solve your problem. If you have to pull the toilet, snake the drain line. Mineral build-up in the rim jets and trapway can cause a sluggish flush, but if your other two toilets work as they should, that is not likely the cause of your trouble.

 

[Reach4]

I gathered from your post that the water level issue is with the bowl and not the tank, as I think it was interpreted by someone else.

You are right. I did think filling to the top meant the tank.

For clogging toilet, get a big plastic waste can or a 5-gallon bucket. Fill as much as practical with water without spilling. Pour the water from as high as practical into the middle of the bowel as fast as the bowl can accept the water. See if that washes your blockage away.

 

[WJcandee]

There's a lot of contradictory advice swirling around this thread, largely because I think we need a little more info...

28 years ago, we installed 3 Kohler toilets

Were they all the same model, or different models? Is the one that doesn't work well the same model as the one(s) that work well?

Does it get more or different use than the others?

Is it on the same floor or a different floor than the ones that work well? (I'm thinking specifically, is it downstairs while those are upstairs?)

The third toilet has several long standing issues.

Did it EVER work the way you would like? If it did, how long ago did the issues start?

And still it clogs frequently and we have to use a plunger.

Once you plunge it out, does it flush fluids "normally"? In other words, once you get it unstuck, can you flush it two or three times in quick succession, flushing just liquids, without any problems? (If it can flush normally after plunging, and it can then flush liquids with no problem, this would tend to eliminate a main line issue as the problem.)

On occasion, it will operate improperly by filling to the top ( after flushing)
and then drains slowly. And often, after doing this, it will not fill back up to the normal
water level in the bowl-water level stays very low.

You have to understand how your toilet works. When you push the flush handle, a measured amount of water rushes into the bowl, both at the bottom of the bowl to initiate the flush (the "siphon jet") and around the rim to wash the bowl. The flapper in the tank then closes when the appropriate amount of flush/wash water has rushed into the bowl, and the tank starts refilling. As it refills, a percentage of the water that refills the tank is diverted through a little hose into the overflow riser in the tank, and that water flows into the bowl to refill it. When the tank is filled to the proper level, the water flow shuts off. When the toilet is properly-adjusted, the bowl will be properly-refilled by the time the water flow to the tank shuts off.

Given how the toilet works, the symptom you describe isn't totally-abnormal. Happens all the time with my toilet in the City. A little too much Charmin in the flush ends up just-barely-clogging the trapway, and the water from the tank flows into the bowl, where the water level in the bowl rises as the tank water and then the refill water flows into the bowl as the tank refills. When the tank shuts off because it has now refilled, the flush water and the water that would have been used to refill the bowl are now all in the bowl. This exerts a substantial weight on the just-barely-a-clog in the trapway, and ultimately it gives way. The water in the bowl dutifully flows over the weir and down the trapway. Because the tank has already refilled and shut off, no refill water enters the bowl.

OR, the clog stays there while water slowly drains around it in the trapway and the paper wicks the water from the bowl, which then doesn't refill because the tank refill has shut off. Sometimes, if you try flushing again at this point, it will clear the clog, and sometimes you will need to get out the plunger.

If you push the toilet handle at this point, does the toilet cycle and ultimately refill to the normal height? What should happen is that the initial flush water fills the bowl and generates, if anything, a weak-ish flush, whereupon the tank refills and the bowl refills, with some excess water flowing down the drain.

SOOOOO...if you would be kind enough to answer these questions, I think we can help determine whether the problem is (a) the toilet design; (b) a clog in the toilet itself; or (c) a problem in your pipes or main line, and offer advice as to next steps accordingly.

 

[Jodebg]

All 3 the same Kohler Wellington.
Limited use to liquid waste, primarily-due to recurring blockages.

This is one of 2 on the 2nd floor. The 3rd toilet is on the 1st floor.

It has been clogging so long that it would be difficult to recall if it ever worked properly?

No it does not. When we flush this toilet (after plunging) the water level rises and circulates at the upper level for a long time before slowly lowering to the normal filled level. The water never drops to the normal low water level during flushing and toilet paper remains in the bowl.

Let me know if you need more information.
Hope this helps.

Is there a way to receive email alerts when someone replies to this thread?

Thanks-
John

 

[Jadnashua]

As has been said, you have a clog, either it's IN the toilet, or in the line draining it. At this point, I think that I'd remove the toilet and see if you then pour some water down the pipe (or maybe it will be visible!) if the water level rises, then slowly drains. If it does, while the toilet may not be the greatest, a new one won't make much of any difference...auger the line, or, if it's a slope issue (it won't run uphill!), then you need to fix that, or a new one won't make any difference.

 

[Jadnashua]

As has been said, you have a clog, either it's IN the toilet, or in the line draining it. At this point, I think that I'd remove the toilet and see if you then pour some water down the pipe (or maybe it will be visible!) if the water level rises, then slowly drains. If it does, while the toilet may not be the greatest, a new one won't make much of any difference...auger the line, or, if it's a slope issue (it won't run uphill!), then you need to fix that, or a new one won't make any difference.

 

[Jodebg]

What kind of auger will I need to do this?

 

[Reach4]

It is called a toilet auger or a closet auger.

Before trying that, get a big plastic waste can or a 5-gallon bucket. Fill as much as practical with water without spilling. Pour the water from as high as practical into the middle of the bowel as fast as the bowl can accept the water. See if that washes your blockage away.

No email alert for a reply to a post.

 

[Jadnashua]

If there's an obstruction IN the toilet, a toilet auger MIGHT get it out. IF there's an obstruction in the main pipe beneath it, you'd need to pull the toilet and use a snake with a big enough head to fill the pipe rather than try to poke a hole through it like what usually happens when you use a smaller head. Sometimes, if it's in the toilet, you need to take the toilet off, and go at it from the bottom, and if you're lucky, you might actually see it.

 

[Magneto]

If your flushing large objects and that is what is causing the clogging you might want to consider a macerating unit for your toilet.

 

[Jodebg]

Went to HD and purchased a Rigid 6ft toilet auger. Fed it into the trap way, up and then down, where it stopped. I am not able to go past the
135 degree bend at the back of the toilet. Put quite a bit of pressure on it while turning handle, but not able to get it to make the 90 degree bend.
Any advise?

 

[Reach4]

I am not able to go past the
90 degree bend at the back of the toilet.

I think you are saying that the amount of auger that you feed in is such that the auger tip is not able to go even as far as the closet flange. If that is because of the design of the toilet, I think that proves that you could benefit from a modern smooth trapway toilet that does not have those kind of bends. Think about it. Don't you want your toilet to provide fairly gentle smooth bends in the path?