Whole house water filter

[garberfc]

Hello All,

I've been in my house for 20 years now. We've had our well water tested and it's slightly hard, but nothing bad with it. We DO have a an extremely fine silt issue that builds up in our water closets / bowls.

We have a Ametek HF-160 whole house filter for most of this time. I've been using the GE FXUSC 30-50 micron filters and they've been very good at removing all the silt.

My problem is that they tend to fail after ~30 days. After the 30 or so days we still have adequate water pressure, but the silt seems to be getting by the filter. Is it seeping in through either the top or bottom of the filter? I would have thought that over time the filter would become even better at keeping the particles out at the cost of having lower water pressure in the house....

Anyways, I'm looking for a solution that will perform the same or better, and with less maintenance.

All comments and recommendations are welcome.

Thanks,
F

 

[Smooky]

You could try a larger housing and filter with smaller openings such as a big blue:
http://www.waterfilters.net/20-BB-15-Wholehouse-Water-Filter-System.html#
http://www.waterfilters.net/20-Inch-Big-Blue-Replacement-Filters.html

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I second the 20x4.5 inch Big Blue

20x4.5 inch Big Blue with maybe the PENTEK DGD-5005-20 filter element. Those 20x4.5 inch filters have a lot more capacity (around 6.5x your current filters). Always have a spare O-ring, and lube the O-ring, each time you change the element, with silicone grease. If your sediment takes a while to settle, consider 2 Big Blue housings in series. The first might be a 100 micron followed by a finer filter in the second housing. Do not use cellulose filter elements; use polypropylene elements as you have been doing. If much of your sediment settles under a minute when stirred in a glass, maybe have a Lakos Twist II Clean filter followed by a 20x4.5 inch Big Blue.

Plumbing in a pressure gauge or 2 after the filters would help to learn when the elements might need changing.

If your water could use some additional treatment, for example for iron or sulfur, a backwashing filter is good. Or you can even have a backwashing filter with sand or something lighter that backwashes automatically. That has a lot of capacity, and it automatically washes the sediment away-- no elements to change.

I have 3 4.5x20 Big Blue filter housings in series following an iron+sulfur removing backwashing filter. The backwashing filter leaves very little for the Big Blue filters to do. It is overkill. I leave the first housing empty. After 13 months, the 2 Big Blue filter elements looked as if they could go for a few more years.

 

[ditttohead]

Knife edge filtration will bypass once the filter gets built up unless you have rubber seals on them, like a pleated filter would have. Even then, they are not typically rated due to the poor sealing design of a knife edge (common on the vast majority of filters). No big deal, the filters are cheap, replace them regularly and you will not have any problems. Personally, I would recommend a self cleaning backwashing Clinoptilolite based system. These filter down to the 3-5 micron range and are self cleaning. The waste water can usually be dispersed onto a lawn (assuming that is legal in your area and the lawn is not affected by the silt). This is the ultimate in install it and ignore it.

 

[garberfc]

You could try a larger housing and filter with smaller openings such as a big blue:
http://www.waterfilters.net/20-BB-15-Wholehouse-Water-Filter-System.html#
http://www.waterfilters.net/20-Inch-Big-Blue-Replacement-Filters.html

Thank you for the information and the links. I had done some web searches for something like this but didn't find anything. I thought there must be something like this. Being the dumb@ss consumer that I am, my web searches led me to Culligan and the like....

 

[garberfc]

I second the 20x4.5 inch Big Blue

20x4.5 inch Big Blue with maybe the PENTEK DGD-5005-20 filter element. Those 20x4.5 inch filters have a lot more capacity (around 6.5x your current filters). Always have a spare O-ring, and lube the O-ring, each time you change the element, with silicone grease. I usually don't re-lube the O-Ring on my current unit. It just keeps water from leaking out the unit, and if nothing was leaking I generally didn't mess with it. If your sediment takes a while to settle, consider 2 Big Blue housings in series. The first might be a 100 micron followed by a finer filter in the second housing. Do not use cellulose filter elements; use polypropylene elements as you have been doing. If much of your sediment settles under a minute when stirred in a glass, maybe have a Lakos Twist II Clean filter followed by a 20x4.5 inch Big Blue. I have never thought to test how long the sediment takes to settle. I'll test and report here. Excellent idea. Regardless, since we have well water, and the price is so low, I'm going to add one.

Plumbing in a pressure gauge or 2 after the filters would help to learn when the elements might need changing. This sounds like a solid idea. Though, I do have two teenage daughters with long hair who don't hesitate to let me know when the pressure has dropped...

If your water could use some additional treatment, for example for iron or sulfur, a backwashing filter is good. Or you can even have a backwashing filter with sand or something lighter that backwashes automatically. That has a lot of capacity, and it automatically washes the sediment away-- no elements to change.

I have 3 4.5x20 Big Blue filter housings in series following an iron+sulfur removing backwashing filter. The backwashing filter leaves very little for the Big Blue filters to do. It is overkill. I leave the first housing empty. After 13 months, the 2 Big Blue filter elements looked as if they could go for a few more years. If you have more than one Big Blue filter, and the pressure drops, how do you know which filter to change or do you always just change both? I think I'm going to just go with one of them.

The Big Blue seems like a higher quality, more commercial filter than my current Ametek unit. Do you think it'll be better about keeping the sediment from 'sneaking' past the filter cartridge??

 

[garberfc]

Knife edge (Ahh, thanks for the terminology!) filtration will bypass once the filter gets built up unless you have rubber seals on them, like a pleated filter would have. Even then, they are not typically rated due to the poor sealing design of a knife edge (common on the vast majority of filters). No big deal, the filters are cheap, replace them regularly and you will not have any problems. Personally, I would recommend a self cleaning backwashing Clinoptilolite based system. These filter down to the 3-5 micron range and are self cleaning. The waste water can usually be dispersed onto a lawn (assuming that is legal in your area and the lawn is not affected by the silt). This is the ultimate in install it and ignore it.

About the waste water; the amount of silt is insignificant and I have a lawn, a septic tank and an acre of woods where I can disperse it, so I don't think that'll be an issue.

Could you recommend a couple of "self cleaning backwashing Clinoptilolite systems" so that I can do some reading / research?

Thanks in advance,
F

 

[KevinPrz]

Anyone have experience with this brand/housing?

http://www.uswatersystems.com/water...-blue-4-5-x-20-commercial-filter-housing.html

I have city water and it's fairly clean, but really wanted something (minimal $) for the whole house. My goal is to have some control over the filtration and to throw away the Brita!

 

[Reach4]

If you have more than one Big Blue filter, and the pressure drops, how do you know which filter to change or do you always just change both? I think I'm going to just go with one of them.

I change both, and I do that by the calendar. I do have a faucet at the output of the last filter, and I can attach a garden hose threaded water pressure gauge. I can compare that reading during use with the one at the pressure tank. But in my setup, the filters are closely coupled and there is no way to have an intermediate gauge.

If I did need to replace a filter every few months, I guess I would figure out which one tends to clog first, and always replace that. Then replace the second if replacing the first was not enough.

But yes, just one works. On the other hand, you could always leave the first housing empty. Heavier sediment would just settle at the bottom of the housing. Be aware that these housings are fairly heavy when you first remove them. So you would prefer to not have to reach out at arms length when removing. You will spill a little water, since they will be brimming full. I would recommend getting a wrench. You normally don't use a wrench to put the housing back on, but it can be useful to take the housing off. When inserting, as I do with other threads, like to turn CCW to feel the thread dropping, and then I turn CW. I have never cross-threaded, but I did not build in a bypass. So not being able to get the housing back on with a good O-ring would mean that I would have to get parts before turning the water back on. I bought spare O-rings, and I am careful not to cross thread. The thread is course, so the danger of crossthreading seems minimal. But being extra-careful only takes a few second.

The Big Blue seems like a higher quality, more commercial filter than my current Ametek unit. Do you think it'll be better about keeping the sediment from 'sneaking' past the filter cartridge??

I can say that there is no knife edge or other gasket. The bottom of the housing has a molded cylinder off of the bottom that the filter inner cylinder fits into. I don't remember how the top seal is made, but I suspect it is similar. I think there are some kind of fingers to center the cartridge as you close it up. There is no flexible rubber seal, or any other knife-edge seal, on the housing or as part of the filter element. It all seems sturdy.

My housings have a little red pressure release button on the top of each housing. Other than testing that, I don't use that because it just dribbles water down the outside of the housing. Opening a faucet takes the pressure off just fine. I actually put Apollo ball valves on the input and output, and they have integral unions. That allowed the soldering to copper to be done without the filters attached. While I mounted my filters, I had the plumber who installed my backwashing filter pipe it up to the copper. He suggested that "boiler valve" faucet at the output of the filter string as a handy way to feed water into my solution tank every 5 weeks. But is also serves as a handy way to attach a water pressure gauge.

Note that the Pentek Big Blue expects you to use 4 5/16" x 1" lag bolts to mount a housing to the bracket.

 

[_John_]

Ditto on dittohead. I'd actually go with Katalox Light or similar media just as an added benefit (it's just MnO2 coated clinoptilolite). It's not really that much more than a clino only media (for dealers anyway) when you consider the total cost of the unit, and will remove iron/Mn/H2S.

Micro Z is one brand name of just zeolite that I can think of.

But ugh on changing cartridges all the time...

 

[garberfc]

If your sediment takes a while to settle, consider 2 Big Blue housings in series. The first might be a 100 micron followed by a finer filter in the second housing. Do not use cellulose filter elements; use polypropylene elements as you have been doing. If much of your sediment settles under a minute when stirred in a glass, maybe have a Lakos Twist II Clean filter followed by a 20x4.5 inch Big Blue.

I tested how long it takes our sediment to settle. It's VERY fine. I scooped some of the sediment from the outside of a used filter element. The sediment is like a paste. I put the sediment in a tall glass of water and stirred, and 36 hours later the sediment has settled. The water is now significantly clearer, but still remains cloudy.

We don't get any 'large' sediment so I'm going to skip Twist II Clean even though the product looks fantastic. Also, in the short term (now), I'm going to go with the Big Blue and the 5005 filter.

 

[garberfc]

Ditto on dittohead. I'd actually go with Katalox Light or similar media just as an added benefit (it's just MnO2 coated clinoptilolite). It's not really that much more than a clino only media (for dealers anyway) when you consider the total cost of the unit, and will remove iron/Mn/H2S.

Micro Z is one brand name of just zeolite that I can think of.

Wow, the Katalox Light http://www.puregen.com/products_detail.php?id=325&lang=en system sounds fantastic! Filters sediment down to 2-3 microns!!

I have a couple of questions about it:

1. About backflushing. How long does it generally take? I have ~60psi.
2. Are there parts / chemicals that periodically need replacing?

Thanks,
F

 

[Reach4]

Looking at your link, the Flow Rate column seems to show a rather low flow rate. 3.3 GPM for a 1.5 cuft media seems low. Maybe that would not apply when being used primarily for sediment vs treatment.

For just sediment, there are other backwashing filter media. Some are just sand or a sand mixture. Mine uses Centaur Carbon, but it is there primarily for sulfur and iron. The sediment filtering was a happy byproduct.

Not a pro.

 

[Smooky]

Here is a site with a lot of good information and they discuss several choices for sediment removal:

http://www.budgetwater.com/sediment_filters.htm

 

[ditttohead]

Katalox light, Ferri-Lite are clinoptilolite based medias coated and impregnated with Manganese dioxide ore. Most of the sediment removal medias are clinoptilolite which is manufactured under many different names. The hybrid Mang ox/Clinop medias are fairly new and have proven to be very effective fopr both sediment and iron/mang,/h2s.
The low flow rate is a "service flow", this would be the recommended flow rate for effective reduction of iron. Sediment removal has a much higher service flow.

The link you see on the Katalox light, they do not stock it nor do they even offer it, that is really old information on their website.

The media should be backwashed for 4-5 minutes daily, or 7 minute every other day if it is used for iron/etc. For sediment removal, it varies with the amount of sediment. No real maintenance except for years later.