Rebuild a toilet stop valve?

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Walt

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Hi all, sorry if this is a dumb question. I searched a little while and didn't find any related information.

My new (to me...) house has copper plumbing. I have some soldered-on toilet stop valves that are apparently from the late '80's when the house was built. In replacing the toilets recently I had trouble getting a couple of the valves to shut off completely. They don't leak from the stems, but are very hard to turn and I had to apply so much torque to one that I thought the stem would twist off, and then it still dripped during the toilet replacement.

In the past in situations like this I would just replace the valves, but the last house had galvanized pipes, so it was a simple matter to just remove the valve and replace with a new (and hope that the end of the pipe didn't crumble away...). But I'm not sure I want to learn to solder fixtures or hire a plumber in order to replace the vavles.

What are my options here? (that do not involve a brazing torch...)
-Can these valves be rebuilt? I have not seen rebuild pars for these, but I have another new valve that is very similar in design (see attachment). Its design is pretty much identical to the ones in the house, except the old handles are chrome and the valve stems are black. Are these valves "standard" enough that I could rebuild them with stem and cap from a donor valve?
-Cut them off and replace with SharkBite valves? There's plenty of tubing between the wall and stop valve, but I have no experience with this type of plumbing connection.

What is commonly done in this case?

Thanks,
Walter

image.jpeg
 
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FullySprinklered

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Unscrew the stem/handle/washer out of the old stop and rob the new stem/handle/washer out of a new stop. Screw the new guts into the old valve body, and you're done.
I haven't been able to find a supply of washers for stops but I keep hoping. Anyone? Bueller?
 

Terry

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If we can't snug the bonnet to seal a drip, we replace the entire valve. I like replacing with 1/4 turns.

If you choose to replace the parts,


brasscraft-bcsr01-oem-kit.jpg
 
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Asktom

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There are some ancient styled ballcock washers out there that have a large enough hole (& they are soft) to snap on the end of the stem. I have gotten standard bibb ashers to work by pressing really hard.
 

SHR

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Unscrew the stem/handle/washer out of the old stop and rob the new stem/handle/washer out of a new stop. Screw the new guts into the old valve body, and you're done.
I haven't been able to find a supply of washers for stops but I keep hoping. Anyone? Bueller?

No, just no. Do not waste your time trying to find replacement parts that probably do not exist. There is no standard for shut-off or any valve internal parts. Cut off the valve and install one of the Sharkbite valves you refer to. Follow the Sharkbite directions carefully to avoid any problems.
 

WJcandee

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Depending upon how much your supply pipe protrudes from the wall, why wouldn't you use a compression stop? I have more confidence in compression stops than sharkbite ones, and they're similarly-easy to install. In fact, are you sure that your current valves are actually soldered onto the copper and not just compression-installed?

Also, consider getting yourself a quarter-turn ball valve as your stop. The handles are often smaller, and they are more reliable than the ones that you have to turn and turn.
 

Walt

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Thanks everybody. I didn't consider compression fittings! I guess that's a pretty good option, but I have had mixed success with them in the past. I've had a couple go on misaligned on me and wound up with a mess on my hands. But I was younger and more hasty then...
I've taken a closer look at the existing valves, and they are Brass Craft brand. I wasn't aware of the rebuild kits for them, thanks for the links Smooky.
I don't think I want to fiddle with just the new washers. But since they are Brass Craft brand, I have a little confidence in the internal parts compatibility, so I think I'll try pulling the handle/stem/nut assembly from the new donor Brass Craft valve and swapping everything except the stop body.
And I'll have a new 1/4 turn valve on hand in case something goes wrong with Plan A.
 
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FullySprinklered

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Reason prevails! It truly is the easiest way to renew the stop, that I've found.
Also, try to account for the old washer. It went somewhere if it's not on the stem. Look in the old valve body and see if it's stuck in there. If so, remove it.
 
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Walt

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Ah, thanks for the tip on the washer. That may explain what happened with one of the old toilets. When we moved in, it took about 45 min to refill after a flush. I planned to replace all of the toilets, so never bothered to fix it or figure it out. But I bet it was a chunk of washer in the fill valve.
 

DonL

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Thanks everybody. I didn't consider compression fittings! I guess that's a pretty good option, but I have had mixed success with them in the past. I've had a couple go on misaligned on me and wound up with a mess on my hands. But I was younger and more hasty then...
I've taken a closer look at the existing valves, and they are Brass Craft brand. I wasn't aware of the rebuild kits for them, thanks for the links Smooky.
I don't think I want to fiddle with just the new washers. But since they are Brass Craft brand, I have a little confidence in the internal parts compatibility, so I think I'll try pulling the handle/stem/nut assembly from the new donor Brass Craft valve and swapping everything except the stop body.
And I'll have a new 1/4 turn valve on hand in case something goes wrong with Plan A.


You may want to check at your local Old School True Value hardware store if you have one.

Around here they sell the parts without having to buy a new valve.


Good Luck.
 

Terry

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For me, it would be quicker to go out to the van, grab a new stop and stick it in.
Any trip to a hardware store is burning up an hour.
However, for DIY, I can see how driving around looking for parts could even be fun. And you skip needing to use a torch on it.

angle_stops.jpg


Compression and IP
I like new stuff anyway.
 
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Walt

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Yeah, being a DIY hack has a few advantages... if I spend a couple hours trying to short-cut it and it doesn't work out, my customer is still grateful that the two wasted hours weren't spent in a sports bar or whatever.;)
Terry, thanks so much for hosting this forum. Information and recommendations I've taken from this forum have saved me untold hours of frustration!
 
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Walt

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OK, so I took apart one of the old valves and swapped in the guts of the new Brass Craft valve and everything seems to fit just fine. The old shaft and screw was brass, and the new is plastic, but seems to be designed to the same spec.
I can't speak for knock-off valves, but apparently the guts of a new Brass Craft right angle stop valve will fit inside the same kind of valve manufactured circa 1987.
And the original washer didn't look that bad. It looks like most of my problem with this valve was foreign object related... Following fullysprinklered's advice, I poked around to see if there were any washer fragments to be found and I found plenty...
The attached picture shows all of the schmutz and slag that I pulled out of the tailpiece upstream of the valve seat!

image (1).jpeg
 
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Gary Swart

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Oh the time and effort we will spend trying to save a couple of $$. A new compression valve would have taken perhaps five minutes to install. Of course you'd have to go to a hardware or plumbing store to get the part, but look at the hassle you have gone through.
 
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Caduceus

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Everyone who actually read Walt's original post, please raise your hand.
Hand raised.
Oh the time and effort we will spend trying to save a couple of $$. A new compression valve would have taken perhaps five minutes to install. Of course you'd have to go to a hardware or plumbing store to get the part, but look at the hassle you have gone through.
Sounds like Walt got what he wanted in a very simple way. He didn't have to sweat or cut the valve off and got it repaired (we plumbers still remember how to repair valves, don't we?). He was attentive to all of the advice given and chose the method that he felt most comfortable with. How do you see a problem with that? Sheesh.
 

FullySprinklered

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The original complaint was that the stop didn't shut the water off to the fixture, not that the stop was dripping. I can gut a new stop and screw the new parts into the old body very quickly. Much quicker than some of the other options suggested by our very experienced posters. I'm cheap with my money and I'm cheap with my customers money as well. The valve body is a chunk of cast/ machined brass. It has a half life of near infinity. It's the other parts that wear out. Replace the wearing parts and you're good to go for a very long time. If I had a supply of pop-on washers for stops I'd darn well be carrying a supply of those. Compare the cost of ten cents for the part and ten seconds for the labor, to some of the other options presented and make your own choice.
 
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