90 long sweep alternative

[Nicksat77]

Hi All,

We are moving a dual vanity to an exterior wall and it appears that a long sweep 90 will not fit very well in between the subfloor and the concrete foundation. Is there another way to transition from vertical to horizontal? The total gap between the subfloor and the foundation is about 6" (have not measured this exactly). Is it possible to just use a 45? This would have a larger than 1/4" per foot drop. If the more than 1/4" drop is okay (for just a vanity drain) the 45* would work for me. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Nick

 

[Terry]

A long turn 90 is essentially two 45's.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Nicksat77]

A long turn 90 is essentially two 45's.

Agreed but if I put them back to back that takes up the same amount of room. Can I do a 45 and then run my 2" pipe for a few inches to clear the concrete foundation? I could then use the 45 again to bring it back to level.

 

[Terry]

Agreed but if I put them back to back that takes up the same amount of room. Can I do a 45 and then run my 2" pipe for a few inches to clear the concrete foundation? I could then use the 45 again to bring it back to level.

We do that in many instances.

 

[Nicksat77]

Thank you!

 

[John Gayewski]

A vertical to horizontal transition doesn't require a long sweep 90. It is better so by all means go for the two 45's, but the long sweep is only required for horizontal to horizontal.

 

[wwhitney]

A vertical to horizontal transition doesn't require a long sweep 90. It is better so by all means go for the two 45's, but the long sweep is only required for horizontal to horizontal.

Perhaps you're thinking of drainage flowing from horizontal to vertical? That's fine with a regular quarter bend. But vertical to horizontal requires two 45s or a LT90.

Chapter 7 Sanitary Drainage: Sanitary Drainage, California Plumbing Code 2019 | UpCodes

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Cheers, Wayne

 

[John Gayewski]

Perhaps you're thinking of drainage flowing from horizontal to vertical? That's fine with a regular quarter bend. But vertical to horizontal requires two 45s or a LT90.

Chapter 7 Sanitary Drainage: Sanitary Drainage, California Plumbing Code 2019 | UpCodes

UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction

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Cheers, Wayne

Perhaps you're right. We use those two interchangeably here and no one bats an eye so guess I'm used to it being OK and inspectors accepting it.

 

[Nicksat77]

Hi All,

The two 45s ended up not working due to angle/space. I was able to track down a mid sweep (i think 1/4 bend) 90* that will work. I believe this would still meet code but would be great to get your opinions.

This is where I got it from and thought it would be okay as I am only using a 2" pipe.

Thank you!

 

[Jeff H Young]

Kind of a personal call its just a pair of lav's . If I was getting inspected I'd use the long sweep. If it wasn't being inspected I'd use one as well except in a tough spot I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to use a long sweep I'd put medium

 

[wwhitney]

The two 45s ended up not working due to angle/space.

How about a picture?

That chart you found doesn't apply to work in CA, it's from the IPC. The UPC section I posted above.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

No 1/4 bends like this in UPC country as stated . I try to know the code and lighten up a bit on a hardship but don't see a problem with a 1/4 bend in a case like this. I guess I've seen a lot and its hit or miss what passes . If I was an Inspector Id point it out and say I know why you did that , or if it was no reason for the improper use I'd just inform it was wrong, if it was just a total slop fest I'd have them correct it along with the other violations

 

[Nicksat77]

How about a picture?

That chart you found doesn't apply to work in CA, it's from the IPC. The UPC section I posted above.

Cheers, Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Thank you for the help. Here is a picture of my potential full setup (not the best quality). None of this is glued in just checking fit on everything with the mid sweep. Appreciate the help.

Nick

 

[wwhitney]

A little hard to build up the overall picture from that progression of close ups, but the path I infer seems rather convoluted.

Can you just run horizontal alongside the girder until over the lower horizontal drain at an appropriate place, then hit a quarter bend to turn down, and an upright combo to join the lower horizontal drain?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Nicksat77]

A little hard to build up the overall picture from that progression of close ups, but the path I infer seems rather convoluted.

Can you just run horizontal alongside the girder until over the lower horizontal drain at an appropriate place, then hit a quarter bend to turn down, and an upright combo to join the lower horizontal drain?

Cheers, Wayne

I think I understand the question. The only reason I ran it at a similar level to the current drain rather than directly above and down was to give me the room to still crawl in that part of the crawlspace. If I run it directly above I can not fit between the two pipes (at least not comfortably to be able to do that. Does the 1/4 bend at the beginning (first vertical to horizontal transition) seem okay? I think I attached them in order now. IMG_2356 is where the vanity will be and then the drain pipe goes down through the plates to connect to the 1/4 bend (img_2352) I then brought it down img_2353 and then tied it back to the main drain with img_2354. I cut the original cast iron at the spot in img_2354 as that led to the original vanity and just wanted to link the new vanities in at the same spot.

 

[wwhitney]

I think I understand the question. The only reason I ran it at a similar level to the current drain rather than directly above and down was to give me the room to still crawl in that part of the crawlspace.

Since the upper horizontal in the crawl space would be alongside the girder under my proposal, I think the only obstruction you'd get would be the vertical between the upper and lower horizontal drains. If you put that vertical, say, 1' from the foundation, then it would obviously be an obstruction to crawling along the foundation.

But depending on the distance from the foundation to the first post, if you put the vertical pipe in the middle of that space, and had 2' to 3' on either side of it, then you should be able to crawl either way around it. From the photos I can't tell the distance from the foundation to the combo in the last photo.

Basically the horizontal u-turn on the lav drainage path you have in the last photo seems suboptimal--a vertical u-turn would be much better. The horizontal u-turn requires a cleanout, which would be hard to ever access.

As to the question in the OP, in your current arrangement you have (going downstream) lav double san-tee - vertical - 90 - horizontal - 90 - vertical - 90 - horizontal. The 90s where the outlet is horizontal are supposed to be LT90s. The 90 where the outlet is vertical can be a quarter bend.

It's hard to tell from a photo, but it looks like the 90 at the bottom in the second to last photo may be a LT90, as is required. A quarter bend 90 will have the same curvature radius as a san-tee, and a LT90 should be close to the curvature of a combo, so that is one way to distinguish.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[John Gayewski]

Is that a double fixture fitting as it should be? It looks like a double santee.

 

[Nicksat77]

Since the upper horizontal in the crawl space would be alongside the girder under my proposal, I think the only obstruction you'd get would be the vertical between the upper and lower horizontal drains. If you put that vertical, say, 1' from the foundation, then it would obviously be an obstruction to crawling along the foundation.

But depending on the distance from the foundation to the first post, if you put the vertical pipe in the middle of that space, and had 2' to 3' on either side of it, then you should be able to crawl either way around it. From the photos I can't tell the distance from the foundation to the combo in the last photo.

Basically the horizontal u-turn on the lav drainage path you have in the last photo seems suboptimal--a vertical u-turn would be much better. The horizontal u-turn requires a cleanout, which would be hard to ever access.

As to the question in the OP, in your current arrangement you have (going downstream) lav double san-tee - vertical - 90 - horizontal - 90 - vertical - 90 - horizontal. The 90s where the outlet is horizontal are supposed to be LT90s. The 90 where the outlet is vertical can be a quarter bend.

It's hard to tell from a photo, but it looks like the 90 at the bottom in the second to last photo may be a LT90, as is required. A quarter bend 90 will have the same curvature radius as a san-tee, and a LT90 should be close to the curvature of a combo, so that is one way to distinguish.

Cheers, Wayne

I get it now. You are saying to run it all the way at the top by the beam. I can look at doing that. From where the quarter bend is to the original location that I had the wye it was about 80 inches. Is that to long? Should I just cut another section of the cast iron to make that run much shorter?

Correct on the original question down the first vertical to the horizontal is where I do not have the room for the LT 90 nor 2 45s. My only real option is the mid 90. Do you think that is okay?

The last turn was a LT 90 into a horizontal then to a 45 +wye.

 

[Nicksat77]

Is that a double fixture fitting as it should be? It looks like a double santee.

It is a double santee - is that not okay?

 

[wwhitney]

1) Doesn't particularly matter, 80" is fine if that's easiest. Gives you plenty of room to work near the foundation.

2) Your third to last photo, it's the elbow on the left? It's supposed to be a LT90, the quarter bend is not ok as far as code compliance. No opinion on whether it will perform OK.

It's hard to see what's going there, what's the obstruction to a LT 90? That's the end of the girder on the right, your floor penetration happens to line up with the girder? What's the piece of wood at the top left, and why can't you notch it a little? Or move your floor penetration to be just next to the girder and point a LT90 outlet directly alongside the girder?

3) Double san-tees are not allowed there, you need a double fixture fitting. See UPC 706.2 at the link I posted earlier.

Cheers, Wayne