Booster pump on a well w/a press tank?

Users who are viewing this thread

Daniel Collick

Still learning.
Messages
65
Reaction score
9
Points
8
Location
Bellingham, Washington
Website
www.bestrooterservice.com
This isn’t my house, but you all know how it goes, since you’re a plumber you get volunteered to help people fix someone else’s mistakes...on a regular basis.
Question 1: if the homeowner isn’t satisfied with the existing well pumps supply pressure, would it be better to adjust the pressure switch, replace the pressure switch with one with a higher range, OR install a booster pump between the pressure tank and the house?

Question 2: why could this be necessary? In 15 years of experience, with adequately sized water piping, 50psi has always been sufficient in every residential single family scenario I’ve encountered.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,621
Reaction score
1,299
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
50 PSI is usually plenty for a single story house. However, with a well pump operating at 40 to 60, 50 PSI is only the average. The pressure will be at 40 or so for quite a bit of time before the pump comes on. Many times simply adding a Cycle Stop Valve to hold the pressure CONSTANT at 50 PSI makes so much difference people think the pressure has increased. When a well pump is cycling on/off between 40 and 60 over and over it can make the pressure seem dismal. With a CSV holding 50 PSI constant, people tell me they no longer even need soap in the shower the pressure is so good.

No you shouldn't need a booster pump. No you shouldn't need to buy a new pressure switch. If you want more than 40/60 that particular switch can turn up as high as 55/75 buy just tightening the large adjustment nut. You can try turning the pressure up to 50/70 and see how they like it. If they like that better then adding a CSV to hold the pressure at a strong constant 60 PSI will make even more difference.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,846
Reaction score
4,427
Points
113
Location
IL
Question 1: if the homeowner isn’t satisfied with the existing well pumps supply pressure, would it be better to adjust the pressure switch, replace the pressure switch with one with a higher range, OR install a booster pump between the pressure tank and the house?
When diagnosing, one question will be what pressure is on the pressure gauge at the pressure switch. With a submersible pump, you can usually turn up the pressure switch, and then you adjust the pressure tank air precharge (measured and set with water pressure zero) to 2 psi below the cut-in pressure. Turning the nut on the big spring 3.5 turns clockwise will usually raise the pressure by about 10 psi-- for both the cut-in and cut-out. Usually you leave nut on the big spring alone. If the pressure switch will not adjust sufficiently, then you can replace the pressure switch.

Checking air precharge and flushing sediment out of the pressure tanks should be annual preventive maintenance. Yes, a lot of us go significantly longer in practice.

Anyway, low pressure complaints may be due to pressure drops in the house during flows. A filter may be clogged or too small. An aerator may be clogged.
 

Daniel Collick

Still learning.
Messages
65
Reaction score
9
Points
8
Location
Bellingham, Washington
Website
www.bestrooterservice.com
50 PSI is usually plenty for a single story house. However, with a well pump operating at 40 to 60, 50 PSI is only the average. The pressure will be at 40 or so for quite a bit of time before the pump comes on. Many times simply adding a Cycle Stop Valve to hold the pressure CONSTANT at 50 PSI makes so much difference people think the pressure has increased. When a well pump is cycling on/off between 40 and 60 over and over it can make the pressure seem dismal. With a CSV holding 50 PSI constant, people tell me they no longer even need soap in the shower the pressure is so good.

No you shouldn't need a booster pump. No you shouldn't need to buy a new pressure switch. If you want more than 40/60 that particular switch can turn up as high as 55/75 buy just tightening the large adjustment nut. You can try turning the pressure up to 50/70 and see how they like it. If they like that better then adding a CSV to hold the pressure at a strong constant 60 PSI will make even more difference.
This sounds good. It’s not what most of my plumbing experience is in, but if I need more info on the CSV I’ll hit you up for additional info.
Thank you.
 

Daniel Collick

Still learning.
Messages
65
Reaction score
9
Points
8
Location
Bellingham, Washington
Website
www.bestrooterservice.com
50 PSI is usually plenty for a single story house. However, with a well pump operating at 40 to 60, 50 PSI is only the average. The pressure will be at 40 or so for quite a bit of time before the pump comes on. Many times simply adding a Cycle Stop Valve to hold the pressure CONSTANT at 50 PSI makes so much difference people think the pressure has increased. When a well pump is cycling on/off between 40 and 60 over and over it can make the pressure seem dismal. With a CSV holding 50 PSI constant, people tell me they no longer even need soap in the shower the pressure is so good.

No you shouldn't need a booster pump. No you shouldn't need to buy a new pressure switch. If you want more than 40/60 that particular switch can turn up as high as 55/75 buy just tightening the large adjustment nut. You can try turning the pressure up to 50/70 and see how they like it. If they like that better then adding a CSV to hold the pressure at a strong constant 60 PSI will make even more difference.

Ok, I thought I’d update with some additional information and add a question.
I was asked, by a friend, to diagnose an issue with a Grundfos booster pump short cycling.
The system consists of, in order of installation, the following components:
-residential/domestic well
-submersible pump
-pressure tank
-filtration/water softener system
-above ground reservoir/storage tank
-booster pump
There is an inline check valve in between the outlet of the storage tank and the inlet of the booster pump, the booster may also have an integral check valve.
The pressure tank & pressure switch are working properly.
Easy diagnosis, isolate the booster outlet supply pressure to the house. Short cycling stops. So, obviously with the pump/supply on, pressure is building and leaking out somewhere often enough to cycle the booster on about twice per minute.
After inspecting each fixture in the house, the homeowners water quality was SO bad that they installed those reverse osmosis kits under the kitchen sink on the main floor and another on the kitchen sink in the basement. The basement RO kit wasn’t shutting off it’s supply pressure after the reservoir/pressure tank filled, sending continuous flow right down the saddle fitting on the drain tailpiece.
In order to be thorough, I also found a water closet fill valve that was suspect, and possibly contributing slightly to the short cycling of the booster.
Also, the water heater is downstream from the booster and isn’t equipped with a thermal expansion tank. I inspected the temperature & pressure discharge pipe and it trickles/drips regularly.
My only question is, aside from the obvious code requirements, since the water heater is downstream from the inline check valve & booster pump, is it still ideal to install a thermal expansion tank? My intuition says yes.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,621
Reaction score
1,299
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Maybe I missed something? I don't see a check valve after the pressure tank?

"There is an inline check valve in between the outlet of the storage tank and the inlet of the booster pump, the booster may also have an integral check valve."
 

wwhitney

In the Trades
Messages
6,556
Reaction score
1,841
Points
113
Location
Berkeley, CA
Maybe I missed something? I don't see a check valve after the pressure tank?

"There is an inline check valve in between the outlet of the storage tank and the inlet of the booster pump, the booster may also have an integral check valve."
I believe there are two tanks, one a pressure tank and one an atmospheric storage tank. So the house pressure only comes from the "booster" pump connected to the storage tank.

Regardless, from the description, the one or two check valves mentioned in the sentence you quoted are between the pressure tank outlet and the water heater. So the thermal expansion is being stopped before it can reach the pressure tank.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Daniel Collick

Still learning.
Messages
65
Reaction score
9
Points
8
Location
Bellingham, Washington
Website
www.bestrooterservice.com
I believe there are two tanks, one a pressure tank and one an atmospheric storage tank. So the house pressure only comes from the "booster" pump connected to the storage tank.

Regardless, from the description, the one or two check valves mentioned in the sentence you quoted are between the pressure tank outlet and the water heater. So the thermal expansion is being stopped before it can reach the pressure tank.

Cheers, Wayne
Correct.
If I’m asked to do anything further, I want to determine what, other than some type of float switch, is communicating between the above ground storage tank and the submersible pump/storage tank. My gut tells me there’s something, otherwise the storage tank would have to be sealed to keep the submersible pump/pressure tank from overfilling the storage.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,621
Reaction score
1,299
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
When you have a pressure tank on a well pump that feeds a storage tank, usually there is a solenoid valve that is controlled by the float switch. The float switch drops and opens the solenoid valve. The pressure tank empties and the pressure switch starts the well pump. When the float switch rises it closes the solenoid valve, the pressure tank fills and the pressure switch shuts off the well pump.

LOW YIELD WELL_and storage with two PK1A one pipe.jpg
 

Daniel Collick

Still learning.
Messages
65
Reaction score
9
Points
8
Location
Bellingham, Washington
Website
www.bestrooterservice.com
When you have a pressure tank on a well pump that feeds a storage tank, usually there is a solenoid valve that is controlled by the float switch. The float switch drops and opens the solenoid valve. The pressure tank empties and the pressure switch starts the well pump. When the float switch rises it closes the solenoid valve, the pressure tank fills and the pressure switch shuts off the well pump.

View attachment 72943
Thank you.
Now if they’d only piped it as nicely as the diagram is drawn.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks