Ok to splice CI closet bend?

[Dusty Fellow]

Working on a bath remodel, 2 adjacent baths in a 2 bath house, so much of the plumbing is getting re-done. Current DWV is all hubbed CI & galv and I’ll be sticking with CI.

One of the toilet locations is staying exactly in place, but the flange and end of closet bend are in bad shape. Is it kosher to cut at midpoint of the closet bend and replace with a half of a new no-hub bend, rather than trying to go all the way to the lead/oakum joint and having to deal with replacing a chunk of 4” vertical stack?

Wasn’t sure if that would be considered poor form.

Thanks! Dusty

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Yep, that is totally OK to cut and reattach to your cast iron pipe.. just be careful that the pipe is uniformly round and doesn't have any raised lettering where you intend to cut and band onto it. Hub and spigot pipe didn't rely on uniform outside dimension as the lead in the joints made up for any differences. If you do find some raised lettering, you can grind it off if its accessible. I always coat the exposed cast iron to prevent rust.

Make sure too that the fitting you intend to install in its place will fit. Most closet ells have rather reduced radii and won't be replaced by a regular or medium sweep elbow.

I use one of these as my door stop for the warehouse.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/AB-I-Foundry-4-in-x-6-in-x-15-in-Cast-Iron-Closet-Bend-370555/202536170

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dusty Fellow]

Yep, that is totally OK to cut and reattach to your cast iron pipe.. just be careful that the pipe is uniformly round and doesn't have any raised lettering where you intend to cut and band onto it. Hub and spigot pipe didn't rely on uniform outside dimension as the lead in the joints made up for any differences. If you do find some raised lettering, you can grind it off if its accessible. I always coat the exposed cast iron to prevent rust.

Make sure too that the fitting you intend to install in its place will fit. Most closet ells have rather reduced radii and won't be replaced by a regular or medium sweep elbow.

I use one of these as my door stop for the warehouse.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/AB-I-Foundry-4-in-x-6-in-x-15-in-Cast-Iron-Closet-Bend-370555/202536170

Thanks! Great tip about potential lettering in the way. That’s something I could have easily overlooked!

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Yeah.. it sucks to go to slide a band on, only to find it leaks because of a raised bit of lettering on the backside where you cant see.

Can't hurt to run a check on the outside circumference too just to make sure. There are weird sizes but there are bands to make up for all the diferences too. Most likely a nohub band or a transition 4CIx4PL band will work with just a slight difference in diameter.

 

[Dusty Fellow]

I always coat the exposed cast iron to prevent rust.

What do you like to use for this purpose? I’ve seen a lot of folks skip this, but it makes good sense.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

On old cast iron where I think the connection is sorta iffy.. I have a gasket making material called Grrip by Hercules. Its the same stuff that is used to bond Neoprene gaskets to wall hung toilets. Its very sticky. I treat it like contact cement.. and a little goes a Long Long ways. And its messy, so be careful with it.

 

[Dusty Fellow]

On old cast iron where I think the connection is sorta iffy.. I have a gasket making material called Grrip by Hercules. Its the same stuff that is used to bond Neoprene gaskets to wall hung toilets. Its very sticky. I treat it like contact cement.. and a little goes a Long Long ways. And its messy, so be careful with it.

Good stuff, will definitely pick some up for a few spots where I am tying to the old CI.

On CI rough-in jobs that I’ve hired out in the past, I’ve had a mix of people sealing their cut ends (of new pipe) with IIRC blue stuff - not sure what it was - and others not. Perhaps was a difference in the guys cutting with a grinder and guys getting square cuts?

 

[Jeff H Young]

only used it once but heard of guys using it on other jobs black swan it was like tar we used it on 8 inch no hub couplings to insure holding under test seemed like it would be good to coat on outside of fitting after grinding.
I always thought cutting fittings was illegal but closet bends are commonly cut never a second thought about cutting a closet bend

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I always thought cutting fittings was illegal but closet bends are commonly cut never a second thought about cutting a closet bend

You should see the crazy modifications I did to a couple 45s to adapt a floor mount rear outlet toilet to an older 4 bolt closet carrier! Took a lot of mock ups and angle grinder time.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I'm no stranger to cutting fittings myself . I've worked with a lot of welded pipe fittings to and they are made for it cut any odd ball angle you want

 

[Dusty Fellow]

On old cast iron where I think the connection is sorta iffy.. I have a gasket making material called Grrip by Hercules. Its the same stuff that is used to bond Neoprene gaskets to wall hung toilets. Its very sticky. I treat it like contact cement.. and a little goes a Long Long ways. And its messy, so be careful with it.

Ah, after a little digging I figured out the stuff I was thinking of was Blue Block by the same company. Block doesn’t seem as widely available now (?), maybe the same/similar formulation as Grrip.

 

[Reach4]

I would consider brushing on POR-15 rust preventive. https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/por-15-por-15-4-oz-sold-by-each-pof45006/11395461-P

If you search on POR-15, you will find a lot of people who don't like it. Maybe they have a better alternative, that that search might turn up. Also, the company now has a whole stable of related products. I don't have experience with those.

I have had limited practice with it. It is supposed to be a primer, but I have used it with nothing on top. POR stands/stood for Paint Over Rust. I think it would look better on cast iron than the Rustolium fish-oil primer, which might work well enough, but would look really hokey on cast iron IMO.

If you store the re-closed can for a long while, I would store it upside down.

EDIT: I was not thinking about the pipe under the coupling, but rather the part outside of the coupling where protection has been ground off.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I think I used the gripp pipe dope, seemed like good stuff , messy, nasty stuff so its gotta be good. I used it on screwed pipe diesel fuel line for big generator huge office campus . I didn't choose it but thought it was good. but tuttle uses it on no hub bands with irregular pipe?
Old hub fittings and pipe is pretty irregular and I trust the fernco couplings better with that , but not legal in the house definitely take a grinder to it if there are casting lines in it just makes for better workmanship and a little insurance. Its not no hub

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

The label calls it a pipe joint and gasket seal. The no hub band is a form of gasket right?

One caution tho.. apply only the thinnest coating on no hub. too much of it and too wet, it acts as a lubricant and the band may just slide off. I let it tack up for a few minutes then put the fitting together.

 

[Dusty Fellow]

The label calls it a pipe joint and gasket seal. The no hub band is a form of gasket right?

One caution tho.. apply only the thinnest coating on no hub. too much of it and too wet, it acts as a lubricant and the band may just slide off. I let it tack up for a few minutes then put the fitting together.

It’s interesting because it looks like the Black Swan No Hub Sealant is the only stuff that is actually made for one of the purposes we’re discussing (sealing no hub fittings on iffy connections). Some internet discussions turned up that it is/was actually code in some places (Chicago area?) to use the stuff on all no hub connections.

On my last trip to the local plumbing supply here in SF, I inquired what folks were using for extra insurance on no-hub joints. They had never heard of using any gasket seal or the Black Swan product and just rec’d HD couplings.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Most plumbing supply counter persons know absolutely nothing about plumbing. Many don't even know the names of parts, just the code number. Only the big heavy duty bands are required to have an adhesive applied to them. I only suggest it because you're not connecting to existing No Hub pipe, you're connecting to old cast iron which has no uniform outside shape and to reduce rust from exposed cast iron if you have to grind any bits off. Working with old stuff doesn't always follow the rules. Many of my inspectors will flat tell you that despite what was installed not meeting code, they would have done it the same way because theres no other choice.

 

[Dusty Fellow]

Most plumbing supply counter persons know absolutely nothing about plumbing. Many don't even know the names of parts, just the code number. Only the big heavy duty bands are required to have an adhesive applied to them. I only suggest it because you're not connecting to existing No Hub pipe, you're connecting to old cast iron which has no uniform outside shape and to reduce rust from exposed cast iron if you have to grind any bits off. Working with old stuff doesn't always follow the rules. Many of my inspectors will flat tell you that despite what was installed not meeting code, they would have done it the same way because theres no other choice.

Totally. What you have suggested makes good sense and what I’ll be doing for the tie-ins to the old. It just sent me down a rabbit hole and I enjoy geeking out on the details.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I've only used black swan a few times on large bands having trouble getting to hold a test. I'm not sure its legal that's another can of worms. I want to know if what I'm doing is right or legal too. on a 4 inch band I normally wouldn't put anything . but on a rough casting that took a little grinding I'd consider it. I'm all for following code but A little sealant shouldn't hurt

 

[Dusty Fellow]

Here’s the new closet bend installed. New toy I got for the shop was perfect for grinding off the lettering. Now let’s all hope the old lead&oakum holds water.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

That's the wrong color of Matte Black for new cast iron fittings.