Fleck 5600 Econominder capacity wheel not rotating

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SidCharming

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I have been monitoring the capacity wheel for a week now and it isn't moving. Done enough water movement with showers, dishwasher, laundry and it just does not move... Thinking this part of the unit is not working for some reason. Is it fixable? If no, should I get a new controller head for the unit I have or get a whole new water softener?

I purchased the house in December of 2019 and I have no idea of the age of the softener (FYI). It was being used when purchased the house, so it was not sitting dormant. Now was it working for them or not and I am catching their broken unit or did it fail on my time... don't know.

Thanks
 

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Reach4

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Might be the motor. Might be the incoming power. If the motor is turning, there could be a failed gear, and you might be able to trigger a regeneration manually. Turning the big knob to backwash may start a cycle. If the motor is not working, you would have to step to each cycle manually.

If city water, you are probably better with a new softener, because that gets you new 10% crosslinked resin (insist).

If well water, it is not as clear a choice, but new softener is a lot easier. If your well has iron, then your resin would need cleaning at least.
 
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Water Guy

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I have been monitoring the capacity wheel for a week now and it isn't moving. Done enough water movement with showers, dishwasher, laundry and it just does not move... Thinking this part of the unit is not working for some reason. Is it fixable? If no, should I get a new controller head for the unit I have or get a whole new water softener?

I purchased the house in December of 2019 and I have no idea of the age of the softener (FYI). It was being used when purchased the house, so it was not sitting dormant. Now was it working for them or not and I am catching their broken unit or did it fail on my time... don't know.

Thanks
is the meter cable securely plugged into the meter behind the unit?
 

Bannerman

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The paddle wheel meter may be worn and need replacement. The meter is located directly behind the controller within the soft water outlet connection which is on the left when facing the softener from the front.

If the cable is pointed straight upward from the meter, pull up on the cable to unplug it. An extended range meter will have the cable plugin sideways. Once unplugged, does twisting the cable cause the capacity dial to also turn?

If twisting the cable causes the dial to turn, then the meter is likely worn out and will require replacement. The meter cover contains the most wearable components so replacing the cover may be all that is necessary.

https://www.softenerparts.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/5600ema.jpg
 

Bannerman

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I have it in manual regen at the moment.
The meter cable will not rotate during regeneration. The meter only measures the quantity of soft water flowing to fixtures so the cable will only turn very slowly when water is flowing to fixtures while the controller is in the 'Service' position.
 

SidCharming

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The meter cable will not rotate during regeneration. The meter only measures the quantity of soft water flowing to fixtures so the cable will only turn very slowly when water is flowing to fixtures while the controller is in the 'Service' position.
Good to know... I guess it'll be a while until I see that turn (after manual regen, I'll run the dishwasher to see if it moves)
 

Bannerman

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You may not see much movement after running only the DW.

The front dial will rotate only a partial rotation between regeneration cycles. I don't recall the differential but if for instance the cable drive's teeth are 1/7 the number of those on the capacity wheel and if regeneration normally occurs 1X per week, then the cable may only rotate less than 1 rotation per day.

I suggested unplugging and twisting the cable as that should directly eliminate the dial and drive gears as the cause of the issue.
 
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ditttohead

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There is a meter check tool available, but it is nothing more than what you did, mark the cable and the dome with a sharpie. When I worked the field and I lost my meter check tool, I would unplug the meter cable, make a strip of thin cardboard about 2-3" long, 1/4" wide, pop the meter cable through it and run some water, the added length is like a clock arm, the farther from the middle the faster ir moves, You will know if it is working fairly quickly. Turn on several faucets and wait 15 minutes.

The meter dome and turbine are easily replaced. The meter cable can also go bad, but that is easy to check, one of the crimped ends will spin and the meter cable wont, just remove the meter cable and check it. The clutch inside the powerhead is fairly bulletproof so it is unlikely to a problem there, but of course it is a possibility.
upload_2020-10-28_13-58-55.png
 

SidCharming

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the cable is pointed straight upward from the meter, pull up on the cable to unplug it. An extended range meter will have the cable plugin sideways. Once unplugged, does twisting the cable cause the capacity dial to also turn?

Yes, unplugging the cable from the straight up from the meter and twisting it unplugged causes the capacity dial to turn. Tomorrow I will pull apart the meter to inspect it for wear. Not sure what I'm going to look for, but if something stands out as 'odd' I'll order a new meter top.
 

SidCharming

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I put unit in bypass and turned off the water with a valve after the softener so no water is running through the house (in case the bypass valve was not sealing). Disconnected the cable from both dome and back of unit. I pulled the dome of the meter off (releasing some residual water pressure). Plugging the cable back into the dome, I am not able to turn the cable with any ease. I didn't want to over try turning the cable with the cap removed but DO expect that the cable should turn with ease while being removed from the meter. Am I correct in my observation? The cable should turn with the cap (dome) removed.
 

Reach4

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isconnected the cable from both dome and back of unit. I pulled the dome of the meter off (releasing some residual water pressure). Plugging the cable back into the dome, I am not able to turn the cable with any ease.
I would be surprised if the cable was easy to turn. I figure there is a lot of gearing.

While I have no reason to believe there is a worm drive in there, but if there is, there is no way to transmit torque backwards.
You have already moved beyond, but I thought I would throw in the video link:
 

Bannerman

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Am I correct in my observation? The cable should turn with the cap (dome) removed.
As shown in the video, all of the reduction gearing is within the meter cap so the cable will not be easily twisted when plugged into the cap.

One method to test the gearing will be to remove the cap and engage the meter's paddlewheel impeller to attempt to rotate the gears within the cap. The impeller should turn fairly effortlessly whereas any binding or loose, sloppy gears will indicate the gears are worn and the dome cap will need to be replaced.

I pulled the dome of the meter off (releasing some residual water pressure).
After bypassing or shutting off flow to the softener, prior to removal of any components, manually advance the softener's control knob to BW to discharge the residual water pressure within the unit.
 

SidCharming

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interesting, I removed the cap/dome again and pulled out the propeller from the meter body. I put it in the cap/dome as it would rest when assembled. The propeller does not feel like it is touching the gear you can see when inspecting the bottom of the cap/dome. I was expecting the gears to touch all the time. Is there a water pressure pressure spring that pushes that cap gear against the propeller?
 

Water Guy

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interesting, I removed the cap/dome again and pulled out the propeller from the meter body. I put it in the cap/dome as it would rest when assembled. The propeller does not feel like it is touching the gear you can see when inspecting the bottom of the cap/dome. I was expecting the gears to touch all the time. Is there a water pressure pressure spring that pushes that cap gear against the propeller?
I would just replace the dome. everything points to that. the fact that the unit is set to 450 gal regen, i suspect maybe your raw water isn't great and some contaminants possibly bound the gears up causing the unit to not read flow thereby not regen. I'd advise you get a comprehensive water test and make sure you have enough equipment and/or what you have is set properly.
 

ditttohead

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The impeller will not feel like it is touching the gears, this is normal. It is a simple gear reduction set with multiple identical reduction gears, this is not the actual gear, but similar in design. This takes the high speed impeller and reduces the speed to what you see on the final gear. An extended range dome is also available, nothing more than another 5:1 reduction gear making the meter go from 0-2100, to 0-10,000ish. It is bullet proof, proven and very simple design. Meter assemblies are reasonably proced and typically last 10-20 years in residential applications. Since the meter is on the treated water side and the gears are water lubricated, these things can last for a very long time!
upload_2020-10-29_17-59-40.png
 

SidCharming

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The impeller will not feel like it is touching the gears, this is normal.

I've worked on gears with other projects (ie garage door openers) and when assembling, you will feel when the teeth of the two gears meet and not. I tried to mesh the gears when putting them together in had of the propeller and cap... I couldn't get the gears to feel like they were meshing or matching up... it was the complete feeling that they were not touching each other. I found a meter on eBay for around $100, is that reasonable pricing? (thoughts just replace the meter, not just the cap or parts)
s-l400.jpg
 

Reach4

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I found a meter on eBay for around $100, is that reasonable pricing? (thoughts just replace the meter, not just the cap or parts)
That seems that much better than the cap I messaged you about yesterday?

I guess that does get you a new paddlewheel too. So considering that, their item 371724608292 is $72.50
 
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