Adding bathroom sink clean out

[Dan]

hi all, hoping the more experienced can provide some feedback on my idea to include clean outs when i replace my bathroom sink as part of my bathroom gut renovation. i stumbled across this post here in the forums that inspired me to think about the clean out.

i want to add clean outs in my bathroom sink i came across two approache:

finehomebuilding has one with two cleanouts
(1) at the wall
(2) under the p-trap
https://i.imgur.com/qC36lRy.jpg

matt risinger showed a second pipe above the sink pipe
https://i.imgur.com/p2kNnwJ.png

if i go with the finehomebuilding example, i would be doing the following (with links for example):

1.5" sink drain --> 1.5" p-trap --> 2" wye

the 2" wye has two connections:
(1) vertical 1.5" waste pipe
(2) 2" female pvc with threads

i'm leaning towards what finehomebuilding shows since it'll take up less space in my small bathroom. i'm not sure if its overkill but i figure why not have two places to get at any clogs since both are different types of problems.

 

[Reach4]

I think that putting a trap adapter at the wall, and using a slip joint trap, you can clean out things much better. Plus it is much easier to get it right or to change things than it is if you use a glued trap.

If you want something for easier rodding, add a separate cleanout above or below. What you show in qC36lRy.jpg would be harder to use than just rodding through a trap adapter. That plug at the bottom of the trap is pretty useless based on what people have posted. I am not a plumber.

 

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[Dan]

I think that putting a trap adapter at the wall, and using a slip joint trap, you can clean out things much better. Plus it is much easier to get it right or to change things than it is if you use a glued trap.

If you want something for easier rodding, add a separate cleanout above or below. What you show in qC36lRy.jpg would be harder to use than just rodding through a trap adapter. That plug at the bottom of the trap is pretty useless based on what people have posted. I am not a plumber.

ok, i'll look into adding a separate clean out above the drain pipe. do you have any idea if code dictates certain rules about distance up from main drain? the main advantage for the wye-trap adapter is the limited space i may have inside the cavity of the vanity. does the added trap have to be above? can it be off to the side?

for a clean out pipe above the main drain: i imagine i would do a full 2" pipe that connects to the plumbing above where the 1.5" sink's 'waste' pipe connects? like the photo in matt risinger's video

 

[Reach4]

What motivates having the separate cleanout? Have you had past clogs where the pipe turns from vertical to horizontal below the floor? Cleaning out via a trap adapter at the wall sounds good to me. I am not a pro.

How about the big picture? Is this an Ikea etc with drawers, or a floating sink, or vessel sink, or pedestal sink? Are the existing pipes steel, and you will want to replace those with plastic for reliability?

 

[WorthFlorida]

The photo with a wye at the wall is most likely for a large kitchen sink installation. For a bathroom sink you will not have enough space between the tailpiece, the trap and the wall. Any sink using slip joints for the trap connection to the wall can easily be taken apart to get access to the drain for cleaning, if ever needed. If you want a cleanout do the double pipe method as Reach4 suggest.

 

[Dan]

What motivates having the separate cleanout? Have you had past clogs where the pipe turns from vertical to horizontal below the floor? Cleaning out via a trap adapter at the wall sounds good to me. I am not a pro.

How about the big picture? Is this an Ikea etc with drawers, or a floating sink, or vessel sink, or pedestal sink? Are the existing pipes steel, and you will want to replace those with plastic for reliability?

as far as motivation for a separate clean out, nothing really. i'm learning about ideas and best practices (i.e. videos, terrylove) and i came across the idea of having a separate clean out which i never thought about before. i have no experiences with anything a little drano or the small barbed tool didn't fix right away.

the sink is a generic sink from an online retailer, nothing special, like ikea with drawers but made of solid wood instead of particle board.

the existing pipe is galvanized steel (1940's home) so i will be replacing that all the way to the cast iron . see the photo of the bathroom here. is it worth it to go all the way to the cast iron and use a fernco donut? i imagine it's corroded. is it worth while to take the time to get all the galvanized steel out of that wall? the galvanized steel tied into the iron stack is the vent pipe(?) so wouldn't be as worried about corrosion but not sure.

 

[Dan]

The photo with a wye at the wall is most likely for a large kitchen sink installation. For a bathroom sink you will not have enough space between the tailpiece, the trap and the wall. Any sink using slip joints for the trap connection to the wall can easily be taken apart to get access to the drain for cleaning, if ever needed. If you want a cleanout do the double pipe method as Reach4 suggest.

shoot good point, i guess i could 'turn' the p-trap to get more clearance but that seems silly since i can easily add a clean out above it when re-plumbing that part with pvc

 

[Reach4]

the existing pipe is galvanized steel (1940's home) so i will be replacing that all the way to the cast iron . see the photo of the bathroom here. is it worth it to go all the way to the cast iron and use a fernco donut? i imagine it's corroded. is it worth while to take the time to get all the galvanized steel out of that wall?

Keeping some or all of the galvanized vent is OK, but yes, getting rid of the galvanized that carries waste should be done if practical. So if you can do the donut, great.

Your picture does not show the area, but an elbow that turns from down vertical to horizontal is a good place for a clog. Use long sweeps or 45s.

Are you buying into the idea of a trap adapter at the wall?

 

[Dan]

Keeping some or all of the galvanized vent is OK, but yes, getting rid of the galvanized that carries waste should be done if practical. So if you can do the donut, great.

Your picture does not show the area, but an elbow that turns from down vertical to horizontal is a good place for a clog. Use long sweeps or 45s.

Are you buying into the idea of a trap adapter at the wall?

as WorthFlorida pointed out there may not be enough room for the wye at the wall so i'm leaning towards having a second pipe above for the clear out. i have to check out the space inside the vanity to see whether having a second pipe for a clean out will fit.

thanks for the advice on the long sweep. i haven't gotten there yet but will remember to have the long sweep going vertical to horizontal under the bathroom floor.

 

[Reach4]

as WorthFlorida pointed out there may not be enough room for the wye at the wall

Pay attention to his third sentence. The trap connection he refers to is a trap adapter.

Not trying to talk you out of a cleanout on the wall. I can understand being extra-cautious while the wall is open. I am trying to talk you into a trap adapter, and out of a glued trap.

 

[Dan]

Pay attention to his third sentence. The trap connection he refers to is a trap adapter.

Not trying to talk you out of a cleanout on the wall. I can understand being extra-cautious while the wall is open. I am trying to talk you into a trap adapter, and out of a glued trap.

ah, got it. i didn't distinguish between 'trap adapter' and the female threaded fitting i linked earlier. thanks for making sure i understood.

yes, i am all for a trap adapter rather than the glued p-trap. my point in doing this is to learn but also to be modular. so i definitely want to create a situation where i can deal with failures/clogs/unexpected events more easily. i'm sure there has to be a tradeoff with the trap adapter vs glued but i can't think of anything significant.

also seems like a mod updated with a photo on one of the posts, so makes it much more clear to me

edit: so i suppose do i need a clean out at the wall if i can just take that whole thing off? if i have the space for a second clean out above, is there any major downside to having that clean out? marginal cost should be minimal, i think.

 

[Reach4]

edit: so i suppose do i need a clean out at the wall if i can just take that whole thing off? if i have the space for a second clean out above, is there any major downside to having that clean out? marginal cost should be minimal, i think.

No downside that I know of, but notice that the photos that Terry added did not have such a cleanout.

 

[wallhanger]

When I had a kitchen remodeled a number of years ago, I believe I had the plumber use a slightly larger diameter plastic pipe than code required. The only jam I ever had was when a bird fell into the pipe from the roof and froze. I don't remember exactly how I cleared that, but I don't remember any particular difficulty.

If I had the skills to do everything myself like you are talking about, I would just use a little larger pipe and the adapter like they are talking about and expect no problems at all. As a homeowner, the biggest bathroom sink clog problem I have ever had is hair balling up around the lever for the stopper. That's a regular every few years cleanup (for me anyway).

 

[Dan]

If I had the skills to do everything myself like you are talking about, I would just use a little larger pipe and the adapter like they are talking about and expect no problems at all. As a homeowner, the biggest bathroom sink clog problem I have ever had is hair balling up around the lever for the stopper. That's a regular every few years cleanup (for me anyway).

not a bad idea to use a bigger diameter, in this case 2". but that may require drilling through the bottom plate, i'll have to look to see how easy it would be to fit the bigger diameter pvc through the floor. if its easy, no brainer, will do 2". though there is something to be said about not keeping it too large of a diameter since i would rather have issues at the sink than somewhere down the line that's much harder/more expensive to work on

at the very least the set up i'm leaning towards is:

- trap adapter (so i can take the p-trap apart and investigate)
- clean out above waste pipe (just in case)

with my quick internet sleuthing i can't seem to find if there are any codes pertaining to position of second clean out (e.g. distance from main waste pipe). i may have to place the clean out within 6" of the waste pipe, but will know more once i get the vanity

 

[Dan]

bathroom sink plumbing is next. here is the wall that my bathroom vanity will go



im wondering if i can replicate the p-trap i did with the tub here



the differences are
(1) the horizontal drain is 18" off the finished floor
(2) the drain pipe from the sink is 1-1/4" rather than 1-1/2"

for the galvanized pipe, i am cutting at a point on the vertical pipe since all else 'above' that is venting.

i would cut the vertical galvanized pipe, add a no-hub coupling, the connect 1-1/2" pvc pipe to 1 sanitary tee (cserving as the clean out) then a short 1-1/2" pvc to the second sanitary tee (connected to the drain)

seems there arent any gotchas? all 1-1/2" pvc, sanitary tees are ok in this 'vertical' position. i will want to plug the cleanout pvc with a threaded fitting that i can screw a cap into?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-1-1-2-in-PVC-DWV-Hub-x-MIPT-Male-Adapter-C4804HD112/100347535


https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-1-2-in-PVC-DWV-MIPT-Cleanout-Plug-C4818HD112/100346681