Drilling a well with portable well drilling rig

[1930]

Hello, Ive ordered one and am expecting it to arrive from overseas in a couple of months. Ive got some property in Dunnellon Fl and its nothing but sand so I think it will do well once I figure out what Im doing.

This https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...a2756.order-detail-ta-ta-b.0.0.7d542fc2oWM1Xz is what I have ordered and is what Im assuming I will recieve and Ill just leave it at that for now.

Im trying to gather any useful info I can on drilling this well, Ive had alot of help from guys on other forums who have directed me to literature thats been available online.

If there is much interest on this forum I can try and repost some of that info here?

Anyway theres alot of info but alot of it is unspecific.

What Im needing help with at this point is .......Im just gonna copy and paste a post I made on another forum, that forum suggested I come here and maybe someone here could help.

Any help with this would be appreciated.

Quote:
One of my questions still is concerning the use of bentonite or a similar drill additive to maintain bore hole in a sanitary efficient state. There is pure bentonite and there are alternatives to bentonite called polymers. I need a better understanding of these chemicals and a guidance of what I should be trying to use.

Much of the material I have read thus far is possibly outdated and Id like the best chance for success in the easiest way possible.

Also I am still unclear on measuring for volume of borehole I.E 6 inch hole 130ish feet deep, Ive read that I need my mud pits to be 3-4 times the size of this equation but how do I figure how much bentonite ( or similar drill additive ) Im gonna need?

My second questions is well development after borehole is produced, in the field I will not have access to anything high tech, well development is crucial to longevity of the well so I need to have the knowledge that will allow me the greatest chance for success.

What can you guys suggest with well development, for me getting a compressor out there and pressurizing the casing pipe so that sediment is blown off the screen might be a good start but I am possibly either overthinking this or am so far off base with my train of thought that I need to regroup?

 

[Valveman]

There is a lot that books can't teach about well drilling. Many of us have spent 50 years learning this stuff. Good thing I am a retired well driller or I wouldn't be apt to give out that information. I think it is good for people to try drilling their own well, as that will make them appreciate what a good driller can do and how much he charges.

With a 6" hole you will need 4" casing with centralizers to get the annular space needed for a good gravel pack. Still not going to be much annular space, so centralizing is important. You don't want the mud any thicker than necessary, but thick enough to float out the heavies. If you get too much mud on the walls it is hard to develop and get water to come through. Not enough mud and the walls sluf off before you get the casing installed. Every area does it a little differently. A driller from your area would know more about the size of the perforations or screen needed, and the size of gravel to go with. But normally an analysis is done of the drill cuttings to determine the perf and gravel size needed to keep the sand out. In our area we rarely have to add mud. There is enough clay on the surface to make the mud needed when we get to the water bearing zone. But we usually sweep the well with a polymer from the bottom of the hole, then flush a load of fresh water to thin the mud as much as possible before installing the casing. Gravel pack must be done slowly to prevent bridging, and to be careful not to add to much. We stop the gravel at more than 10' below the surface, so we can grout or cement the top 10' to seal the well. If the well is flushed properly before adding the casing, there isn't much left to develop. Just pumping it hard is all that is needed to clean it up and make a good well.

There are lots of little tricks to know like using a drill collar and stabilizer to keep the hole open and not have to push down too hard. The drill needs to be heavy enough to drop on its own, as pushing makes for a crooked hole. We use flow through stabilizers to keep the mud walls packed tight and smooth. All of this needs to be done properly because a sandy well is a problem for life. And of course you need to make sure to have the proper permits and well spacing for your area. Wells need to be a certain distance from each other, a certain distance from septic systems, and a certain distance from the border of your property.

If you manage to make a good well, then you will need a good pump system. There are lots of tricks to learn there as well. The first thing to learn is that a pump likes to run 24/7/365, but they hate to be cycled on and off. You will need to install a pump large enough to meet the peak demands of the system, but set it up to not be cycled to death when using smaller amounts of water. Rarely is a pump used at its maximum flow rate, which causes the pump to cycle on/off repeatedly while you are using water. House well size pumps will work perfectly fine down to as little as 1 GPM, but they won't survive long when being cycled on and off repeatedly. A Cycle Stop Valve will make a standard pump into a variable flow pump that will not cycle as long as you are using more than 1 GPM. Normally you have to use the max flow a pump can produce to keep it from cycling, which is hard to do. A Cycle Stop Valve solves those problems and many others as well. Understanding that cycling is the worst thing for a pump and they will work fine down to 1 GPM is a sign of someone who really understands what they are doing. This industry is full of people who think they know everything, yet don't have a clue how pumps really work. You can use the Cycle Stop Valves as a litmus test to find knowledgeable help. Anyone who says cycling on/off is not bad for pumps or that they need more than 1 GPM to stay cool is giving bad advice about everything. The ones that don't understand pumps usually have the biggest mouths, you just need to back away and find some knowledgeable help.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Greenmonster123]

Man I would see if you could cancel that order on the drill rig. Unless you have money to burn. I have helped my buddy drill wells with both a mud rig and an auger rig. I wouldn’t dream of trying to do my own mud well. There are so many little nuances that you won’t know until someone shows you. But if you have the time and money to play around I don’t blame you.

 

[1930]

There is a lot that books can't teach about well drilling. Many of us have spent 50 years learning this stuff. Good thing I am a retired well driller or I wouldn't be apt to give out that information. I think it is good for people to try drilling their own well, as that will make them appreciate what a good driller can do and how much he charges.

With a 6" hole you will need 4" casing with centralizers to get the annular space needed for a good gravel pack. Still not going to be much annular space, so centralizing is important. You don't want the mud any thicker than necessary, but thick enough to float out the heavies. If you get too much mud on the walls it is hard to develop and get water to come through. Not enough mud and the walls sluf off before you get the casing installed. Every area does it a little differently. A driller from your area would know more about the size of the perforations or screen needed, and the size of gravel to go with. But normally an analysis is done of the drill cuttings to determine the perf and gravel size needed to keep the sand out. In our area we rarely have to add mud. There is enough clay on the surface to make the mud needed when we get to the water bearing zone. But we usually sweep the well with a polymer from the bottom of the hole, then flush a load of fresh water to thin the mud as much as possible before installing the casing. Gravel pack must be done slowly to prevent bridging, and to be careful not to add to much. We stop the gravel at more than 10' below the surface, so we can grout or cement the top 10' to seal the well. If the well is flushed properly before adding the casing, there isn't much left to develop. Just pumping it hard is all that is needed to clean it up and make a good well.

There are lots of little tricks to know like using a drill collar and stabilizer to keep the hole open and not have to push down too hard. The drill needs to be heavy enough to drop on its own, as pushing makes for a crooked hole. We use flow through stabilizers to keep the mud walls packed tight and smooth. All of this needs to be done properly because a sandy well is a problem for life. And of course you need to make sure to have the proper permits and well spacing for your area. Wells need to be a certain distance from each other, a certain distance from septic systems, and a certain distance from the border of your property.

If you manage to make a good well, then you will need a good pump system. There are lots of tricks to learn there as well. The first thing to learn is that a pump likes to run 24/7/365, but they hate to be cycled on and off. You will need to install a pump large enough to meet the peak demands of the system, but set it up to not be cycled to death when using smaller amounts of water. Rarely is a pump used at its maximum flow rate, which causes the pump to cycle on/off repeatedly while you are using water. House well size pumps will work perfectly fine down to as little as 1 GPM, but they won't survive long when being cycled on and off repeatedly. A Cycle Stop Valve will make a standard pump into a variable flow pump that will not cycle as long as you are using more than 1 GPM. Normally you have to use the max flow a pump can produce to keep it from cycling, which is hard to do. A Cycle Stop Valve solves those problems and many others as well. Understanding that cycling is the worst thing for a pump and they will work fine down to 1 GPM is a sign of someone who really understands what they are doing. This industry is full of people who think they know everything, yet don't have a clue how pumps really work. You can use the Cycle Stop Valves as a litmus test to find knowledgeable help. Anyone who says cycling on/off is not bad for pumps or that they need more than 1 GPM to stay cool is giving bad advice about everything. The ones that don't understand pumps usually have the biggest mouths, you just need to back away and find some knowledgeable help.

Im not trying to evade having theee guy do it cause of the money, the machine cost 2ish, another thousand import/customs fees = 3 thousand, filter, casing, chemicals, pump, tanks ect ect ect Im not saving nary a dime most likely, Im doing it myself cause I want the experience.

Local drillers will do the job for 4-6 thousand.

I appreciate the comments and the information, Im happy to say that everything you said ( with the exception of the pump info ) Ive already read online and even happier to say I completely understand what you are saying.

Unfortunately I still dont have the experience.

I need to learn more about what I should be using down the hole other than water.

 

[Valveman]

I applaud you for trying. Most people think drilling a well is no different than a deep post hole. They don't realize how many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, tools, licenses, insurance, labor, etc., it takes to drill wells. They don't understand how many times they lost circulation, got the tools stuck in the hole, or just made a bad well before they figured out how not to do it. If you want to call me I will talk you through as much as I can. But please post pictures and let us know how it is going, as it would be a good learning experience for everyone.
Cary
806-885-4445

 

[VAWellDriller]

Im not trying to evade having theee guy do it cause of the money, the machine cost 2ish, another thousand import/customs fees = 3 thousand, filter, casing, chemicals, pump, tanks ect ect ect Im not saving nary a dime most likely, Im doing it myself cause I want the experience.

Local drillers will do the job for 4-6 thousand.

I appreciate the comments and the information, Im happy to say that everything you said ( with the exception of the pump info ) Ive already read online and even happier to say I completely understand what you are saying.

Unfortunately I still dont have the experience.

I need to learn more about what I should be using down the hole other than water.

High yield bentonite is all you should need to get a hole that shallow down, especially if its mostly sand. I mix 50lb per 300-500 gallons / water to get started. I can drill a 8.75" hole to 400' starting with 2 bags of high yield and 1000 gallons / water. I will end up using a gallon or so of liquid polymer to help drilling through about 200' of nasty clay we have to get through, and I will end up using about 5000 gallons of water to get that hole in....if everthing goes right, that will be a 1 day job, to dig pit, drill hole, set 4.5" pvc casing gravel pack and grout.

 

[Serial Driller]

Hi 1930,
I have a new drilling rig, the 3rd that I have owned. I bought my first rig fifteen years ago. It was the converted post- hole digger style. It would only drill a 4 inch hole, which would accommodate a 2 inch casing. 2 inch deep well pumps are rare, so I never drilled with that rig. Sold it.
View attachment 58156
Next was a hydraulic rig using 1-1/2 inch plumbing pipe. Ran into rocks at about 5 feet down. Broke my drill pipe. Sold the rig.
View attachment 58157
My new rig is way bigger. (I never give up)
View attachment 58158
Now I have drilled down about 10 feet, as of December 31, 2019. Ten feet in 15 years. That's about 8 inches per year. My problem is that I have drilled into loose cobble. Rocks about 3 to 10 inches residing in unconsolidated formations. (dirt)
Although I haven't found a solution to that problem, I have lots of other well drilling info and a lot of good links.
Two good links for bentonite mixing and borehole volume are:
http://www.clean-water-for-laymen.com/bentonite-properties.html
http://www.clean-water-for-laymen.com/bentonite-properties.html
I don't premix the bentonite in a barrel. I just recirculate back into the pit with my mud pump.
My experiences with bentonite:
There is a big difference high yield bentonite and industrial grade. High yield works, industrial doesn't. Industrial grade won't produce the high marsh funnel viscosity needed for drilling.
Some bentonite has polymers added to it and must be mixed VERY SLOWLY. I ended up with something called "fish eyes". It looked like 300 gallons of frog eggs.
I stayed with bentonite rather than polymers because bentonite can last in the mud tank indefinitely, while polymers have a shorter usable life. I drill very slowly.
For measuring the viscosity of the bentonite mud, I purchased a marsh funnel.
https://www.usgeosupply.com/drilling-mud-measuring/397-marsh-funnel-viscometer.html
For well development, I have purchased a "surge block". It works like a toilet plunger with an up and down motion that flosses out the openings in your well screen.
https://www.shop-esp.com/Well-Developers-Surge-Blocks-C94.aspx
Hope this helps. Next time I will have some questions of my own​

 

[Valveman]

(I never give up)

LOL! You have gained some really good experience. I love to see people learning like that. However, you would have been much better off just using an experienced well driller. We already been through all of that as well drilling is just a process of learning what doesn't work.

 

[Serial Driller]

I personally know 2 friends in this area who have paid $40 per foot for 250 foot dry holes drilled by commercial well drillers. My thinking is that I can spend up to $10,000 on drilling my own well, and then sell the rig to someone else who wants to drill their own well. That said, I have spent about
$27,000 so far, but I have high hopes of saving considerable money on this project. (LOL)
My questions:
1) Recommendations for mud viscosity all say that coarse gravel (over 3/4 inch) requires a marsh funnel reading of 75 to 80 seconds. Can thick mud actually force a 1" or 2" rock up to the surface? The largest chip I have ever circulated up is about 1/3 inch in size. My pump is an MCM 178 series and I have 112 horsepower to push it. I have tried annular velocities from 50 to 100 feet/minute. What gives?
2) Minimum advised torque for a 6" tricone rotary TCI bit like mine is 8,850 ft/lb.
http://horizon.documentation.ird.fr/exl-doc/pleins_textes/divers16-07/010048825.pdf page 269
My rig uses Mayhew Jr. 2-3/8" drill pipe with a maximum torque limit of about 5,800 lb. Would this mean that I can't use a tricone bit over 4 inches diameter?
My hydraulic top head motor only develops 600 to 900 ft/lb. At 1475 ft/lb required per inch bit diameter, I can only drive a 1/2 inch tricone rotary bit? Do they come that small?
3) What is the best technique for a lighter rig (6,000 lb push down) to drill through loose cobble? The darn rocks won't hold still. They roll around under my bit like ball bearings. I can make about a foot per hour, but if I pull my drill assembly up about 2 feet, I can only go back down 1 foot because all of the unbroken round rocks that have accumulated on top of my bit have fallen back down into the bottom of my borehole.

I'm counting on you, valveman. Thanks for any advice you can spare.

 

[Valveman]

Well I wish I could wave a magic wand and make that big gravel come flying up the hole. But drilling large gravel is one of the hardest things to do. If you lived in an area with just soil, sand, and maybe up to 1/2" gravel what you are doing would work and you would be done. You really can't get mud thick enough to float 3/4" gravel, much less 2". A reverse circulation rig might be able to do that. I don't know that you can get that large a gravel out with a casing driver and an under-reamer. And if you do get the gravel out, how do you keep it from caving in on top of the drill bit? Driving casing while drilling sounds like the only way to me. You can spend a lot more time trying to drill your way out of the well than drilling down when stuff falls in on top of the bit. Many times the drill string just gets planted there, as it won't come out.

Every area is different. Finding out what drillers in that area do is the best way to figure this out. But drillers don't like giving up the secrets they spent a lifetime figuring out, and rightfully so. Even if they tell you, you may not be able to duplicate their process.

Maybe Boyce or VA can help you with this? They probably know things about drilling large gravel that I don't?