Fleck 9100 SXT settings

[Peach1303]

Hi all-

I am completely stumped by my water issues. Long story short, we rented a water softener when we first built our house, and we were never quite happy with it. So we ended up buying a 160,000 (80,000 per tank) Fleck 9100 SXT. Our water has been all over the place in regards to GPG.

Testing the water, our hardness level is typically between 85-100. For some reason, it varies throughout the year. Our iron is at 2-3 ppm.

My current settings are at:

DF- Gal
VT- DFlb
CT-F1
NT-2
TS-U2
C- 45x1000
H-150
RS-SF
SF-0
DO-10
RT-2:00
BW-6
BD-60
RR-8
BF-14 (Factory recommended 10 but I increased it)
FM-P0.7

I purchased it from a website online, and just cant figure out the settings quite right. Ive done a ton of reading and am still slightly lost. Should I up it to a 15 lb salt setting? If so, what do I need to change around?

Im currently getting 11 gpg out of the softener, which obviously is a lot better than straight well water, but i feel like I should be even lower than that.

Any info/suggestions on this would be great.

Thanks

 

[Bannerman]

BF-14 (Factory recommended 10 but I increased it)

This setting will be dependant on the Brine Line Flow Control restrictor that is installed. The installed BLFC will typically be indicated on a label located nearby to the brine fitting. What flow rate is indicated? (usually 0.125, 0.25, 0.5 or 1 GPM)

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Testing the water, our hardness level is typically between 85-100.

How are you testing that? I would suggest a lab water test. https://www.isws.illinois.edu/chemistry-and-technology/public-service-laboratory/water-testing is not fast, but should be economical. https://envirotestkits.com/product/safe-home-select/ is about $100.
A newer provider is https://mytapscore.com/collections ; http://e-watertest.com, which is where I got my first test, now links there. I suspect it is a referral rather than a rebranding.
https://watercheck.com/collections/well-water-tests basic probably runs over $200 with shipping, because it calls for overnight shipping for the return of the refrigerated sample. I think that overnight and cooling is because they do the coliform test rather than giving you a DIY coliform kit that you incubate at home.

With an Hach 5-B testing the raw water, I would mix 3 parts distilled water and 1 part test water, and multiply the drop-count by 4.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/ind...0-sxt-programming-settings.60651/#post-450189

So what to use for compensated H? For 100 gpg, and 3 gpg iron, I compute
(100*1.4)+(3*5)=155.
You could try backing off of that if the softened water stays under 1 gpg.

Thefollowing changes C to compensate for brine fill rounding:

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 7.8 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM (CONFIRM IT -- look for sticker-- but that is compatible with your existing settings)
cubic ft resin = 2.5 ; ft3 resin (each tank)
Compensated hardness = 155 ; including any compensation
People = 3 ; Does not matter for settings, just forecast
Estimated gal/day = 180 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days/regen = 2.150414846 ; Computed days with reserve

Fleck 9100SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash
CT = FI; Meter Immediate
NT = 2 ; Number of tanks
C = 59.1 ; capacity in 1000 grains per tank
H = 155 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
RC = 0 ; Can use 0 for no reserve
DO = 7 ; Day Override (shorter with iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time matters after DO days or CT=Fd
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 13 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = usually t0.7 ; flow meter,see https://goo.gl/UbWJWW

 

[ditttohead]

great water test, check this company out. Typically about $200,
http://watercheck.myshopify.com?aff=5

Removing 3 PPM of iron with a softener already trying to reduce 100 GPG is going to be difficult to say the least. A properly designed iron reduction system should be considered. Otherwise add a lot of citric acid to the brine tank regularly.

You may also want to consider a second softener as a polisher. A simple single tank unit set to regenerate every couple of weeks at a high salt setting.

 

[Peach1303]

I was using the Hach testing kit. I will try that with the distilled water. Im also bringing in a sample to our local county health dept as they offer water testing. Im not able to find the label in regards to the GPM however.

 

[Reach4]

I was using the Hach testing kit. I will try that with the distilled water. Im also bringing in a sample to our local county health dept as they offer water testing. Im not able to find the label in regards to the GPM however.

Usually a county health department does not test the things you need for water treatment, which in Illinois wells is usually hardness and iron. Maybe your county tests more.

Incidentally, if you get a coliform test, you have to take care in drawing your sample (sterilize the faucet) to avoid a false positive.

 

[Peach1303]

They test for the hardness, not seeing anything for Iron though. Thank you for the pointers.

 

[Peach1303]

Still waiting for the County's results, but I adjusted my settings to match the ones suggested. It made the water worse. Its coming in at 15 grains as opposed to the 11 I was getting before. Not sure why its going in the wrong direction. Do I need a longer salt setting?

 

[Reach4]

Still waiting for the County's results, but I adjusted my settings to match the ones suggested. It made the water worse. Its coming in at 15 grains as opposed to the 11 I was getting before. Not sure why its going in the wrong direction. Do I need a longer salt setting?

You may need clean the injector screen and the injector area.

Make sure that some salt stays above the waterline in the brine tank.

 

[Bannerman]

but I adjusted my settings to match the ones suggested. It made the water worse. Its coming in at 15 grains as opposed to the 11

As the 9100 is a twin tank control valve, after adjusting the settings, did you perform 2 regenerations before testing hardness?

If only a single regeneration was performed after the settings change, the 2nd tank would be online but that tank will have been regenerated with the pre-modified settings.

The first regeneration should cause the 1st tank to regenerate while the 2nd tank is online. The second regeneration will advance the 1st tank that was just regenerated with the new settings, to the online position while the 2nd tank will regenerate for later use.

 

[Peach1303]

I didn’t perform two regens. Both tanks were testing at 11 gr for the past couple weeks. I now have one tank testing at 15 with the recommended settings and I would assume the other tank would be at 15 also. The water results came back in at 1580 mg/ml hardness from the county.

 

[Bannerman]

I now have one tank testing at 15 with the recommended settings and I would assume the other tank would be at 15 also

Any time a setting change is performed, the test results will not reflect the change until the online tank the water sample was obtained from has been actually regenerated using the new settings.

 

[Reach4]

Any time a setting change is performed, the test results will not reflect the change until the online tank the water sample was obtained from has been actually regenerated using the new settings.

In this particular case, the BF time was not increased in the new settings. Still, the resin may be in an ultra-depleted state, so a couple of early regenerations might be good.

I still think the injector and injector screen and that area should be cleaned. Monitoring the brine draw time could check for clogs in that area could serve as a check in lieu of cleaning I guess... expect the brine to be all drawn out in about 15 minutes into the BD cycle.

 

[Bannerman]

In this particular case, the BF time was not increased in the new settings.

My point is, a setting change does not in itself result in any change to the hardness amount measured in the softened water. To determine the effect of a setting change, the resin tank to supply the sample to be tested, will first need to be regenerated using the new settings. With a twin tank softener, that will require 2 regenerations to be performed after making a setting change, as the 1st tank regenerated with the new settings, will need to return to the online position so as to deliver the sample to be tested.

Still, the resin may be in an ultra-depleted state

I agree. If the resin's capacity in each tank has been depleted, any subsequent regeneration to restore less than full capacity will likely result in excessive hardness leakage through the resin bed, which appears to be occurring in this situation.

When only a partial amount of resin capacity is regenerated in a depleted resin bed, the exhausted portion will not provide much if any softening benefit or flow rate support. For instance, although each tank may contain 2.5 cuft of resin, if 1 cuft of that is exhausted and the capacity not restored, then only 1.5 cuft will be expected to perform as 2.5 cuft. As Ditttohead stated, 100 gpg hardness + 3 ppm iron will already be difficult, so how much worse if not all of the resin's capacity is actually usable.

When resin capacity has been exhausted, then a 1X regeneration per tank using 18 - 20 lbs salt per cuft will often be beneficial. Due to the high hardness and iron, that may not result in 0 gpg, but the post softener hardness will likely further improve from where it is currently.

 

[Peach1303]

That’s definitely a lot to take in and very good advice. I guess I have a question in regards to the BF time. My float stops it from filling too much. Is there an adjustment on that or do I need to add water manually to the brine tank to make up for the additional time on it for the increased salt setting of the 18-20# of salt?

 

[Reach4]

I guess I have a question in regards to the BF time. My float stops it from filling too much. Is there an adjustment on that or do I need to add water manually to the brine tank to make up for the additional time on it for the increased salt setting of the 18-20# of salt?

You can adjust the float within limits. See if you can raise the float.

 

[Peach1303]

Unable to figure out how to raise the float. Ive been pouring in extra water to the brine tank, and adjusted it to a 23 second setting. Massive difference. Down to 2 gpg, just a pain to have to keep putting in extra water. Also, switched to the salt that deals with iron as well, along with some Iron-Out in the brine tank as well.

 

[Reach4]

Unable to figure out how to raise the float. Ive been pouring in extra water to the brine tank, and adjusted it to a 23 second setting. Massive difference. Down to 2 gpg, just a pain to have to keep putting in extra water. Also, switched to the salt that deals with iron as well, along with some Iron-Out in the brine tank as well.

If you look at pages 30...33 of the 9100 service manual, can you see which float assembly you have? Maybe you can pull the float assembly up and out of the brine well to look at it.

I am not familiar with adjusting, but I suspect if you can pull yours out, you will be able to tell. If you could identify which one you have, somebody might be able to tell you how to adjust your brine safety float.

 

[Bannerman]

Down to 2 gpg, just a pain to have to keep putting in extra water.

The 18-20# per ft3, was only to be a 1X procedure per tank. Once the entire resin capacity has been restored, then the appropriate lower salt amount for the lessor capacity to be regenerated should be adequate. (ie: 20 lbs salt to regenerate 60,000 grains usable capacity in 2.5 ft3)

Similar to a vehicle, if it regularly achieves 20 mpg, then adding 10 gallons fuel after driving 200 miles should completely refill the tank if it was actually full before departure, but adding that same 10 gallons will not refill the tank if it wasn't full to start with. With a softener, start with the resin already regenerated to full capacity, use a portion of that capacity and then restore that capacity using the appropriate lower quantity of salt.

Because your actual hardness and iron is so excessive, makes it less straightforward to accurately calculate the hardness setting required. The compensated hardness amount will not only include actual hardness plus 5 gpg for each 1ppm iron, but also a very substantial high hardness compensation factor. I had anticipated Reach4 would have indicated the appropriate compensation factor as I think he has already charted that in a spreadsheet.

Edit: I had missed where Reach4 added a high hardness factor of 1.4 to only the hardness amount. I had anticipated the factor would be also applicable to the iron compensation since 1 ppm iron is equivalent to 5 gpg hardness and is further consuming the resin's capacity at that rate. If iron compensation is added to the actual hardness, does the HH factor need to be increased (ie: 1.5 or higher), or will 1.4 remain suitable for the entire amount?