Apartment Maint won't fix running Mansfield toilet. Replaced everything twice, still runs. HELP!

Users who are viewing this thread

Kellen

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
NorCal
Mansfield toilet so not your standard ball/flapper assembly. Looked like this (this is the original setup but taken after the first rebuild with identical parts).

mansfield-repair.jpg


Toilet started running every 10 minutes. Replaced the flush valve first, that didn't fix it. Replaced the fill valve, that didn't fix it. Replaced the tank bolts and spud gasket. That didn't fix it.

Someone on a different forum said the guts of a Mansfield are crap, get a traditional flapper/chain assembly so I did that. Second rebuild of all the parts mentioned, just in case I got a faulty part.

That didn't fix it.

Bought a flapper seal in case the inside of the tank was pitted. That didn't fix it.

Messed with the water level. That didn't fix it. Replaced the handle. That didn't fix it.

If I flush, turn the water off and add dye to the tank, dye doesn't show up ANYWHERE. It doesn't go into the bowl. There's no water on the floor. But the tank is empty in 2 hours. WHERE IS THE WATER GOING???? It's got to be going somewhere, and there's only 3 possible exits out of a toilet tank: through the fill valve which would leak onto the floor. Through the flapper or spud gasket which would leak into the bowl. Through the tank bolts which would leak onto the floor as well.

At the rate the tank loses water it's got to go someplace but it's just disappearing and can't be accounted for. And yet it runs and runs and runs.

The issue is compounded by the fact that this is an apartment and maintenance has just thrown their hands up and said "I don't know!" and left it. They refuse to replace the toilet. I've contacted a renter's advocate but as long as the toilet functions, they are not LEGALLY obligated to repair a running toilet. No plumber in my area will come to an apartment without the ok of the property manager which they obviously won't give.

I mean, it kinda functions? I have to shut the water off until I need to use the toilet, otherwise the noise is ridiculous and also keeps me awake. It runs literally every 10 minutes.

I have GOT to figure this out. Having a toilet I have to " turn on" before use is just SUCH a nice civilized way to live. I suppose I could replace it, but I'm in medicine, not plumbing, and I'm afraid of screwing up and then not having any toilet at all.

I can't replace anything else, and there doesn't seem to even BE a leak or there would be red water somewhere. Any ideas?
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,602
Reaction score
1,041
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
The most likely culprit is the small tube into the center of the flush valve. It may be shoved down too far and is siphoning the water out of the tank, although not likely to empty the tank. The other possibility is that the rubber seal ring is not installed so it is flat on the bottom.
 

Kellen

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
NorCal
The most likely culprit is the small tube into the center of the flush valve. It may be shoved down too far and is siphoning the water out of the tank, although not likely to empty the tank. The other possibility is that the rubber seal ring is not installed so it is flat on the bottom.

Nope, the tube isn't the issue. I even totally disconnected it so that it just dumps back into the tank. Toilet still runs.

If it was the spud gasket, or the the gasket on either sidesof the flush valve, wouldn't I be seeing red water in the bowl?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Your dye in the tank may not be that noticeable in the bowl due to dilution.

If you remove part of the water in the bowl, but not down to the exit hole, see if the level rises back up again.
 

Kellen

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
NorCal
Your dye in the tank may not be that noticeable in the bowl due to dilution.

If you remove part of the water in the bowl, but not down to the exit hole, see if the level rises back up again.

That's unlikely. I've done it several times and the last 2 I made it unreasonably red. Half a tube of regular old food dye. It was RED.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
That's unlikely. I've done it several times and the last 2 I made it unreasonably red. Half a tube of regular old food dye. It was RED.
I like that.

Another thing to try is turn off the supply water. Let the tank water become very calm. Drop food color onto the water, and watch the color path.

Another idea is to place one or two pieces of tubing securely-enough into place with open ends at the bottom and above water. Drop food color into the tubes. See the flow path without dispersion from the trip down. Used oxygen tubing could do it, but something more rigid could be easier to hold in position. A discarded IV drip setup, with the needle taped to a stick, could give pinpoint color injection.

If you see a telling trail of color, take a photo.

gm-wind-tunnel-turns.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kellen

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
NorCal
I like that.

Another thing to try is turn off the supply water. Let the tank water become very calm. Drop food color onto the water, and watch the color path.

Another idea is to place one or two pieces of tubing securely-enough into place with open ends at the bottom and above water. Drop food color into the tubes. See the flow path without dispersion from the trip down. Used oxygen tubing could do it, but something more rigid could be easier to hold in position. A discarded IV drip setup, with the needle taped to a stick, could give pinpoint color injection.

If you see a telling trail of color, take a photo.

I have those things! I'm an aquarium hobbyist, I have rigid airline tubing which should work. I'll try this later and report back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,602
Reaction score
1,041
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
Unless the water is evaporating, the water, and color HAS to go into the toilet, regardless of what you are telling us. There is NOWHERE else for it to go.
 

Kellen

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
NorCal
Unless the water is evaporating, the water, and color HAS to go into the toilet, regardless of what you are telling us. There is NOWHERE else for it to go.

You're honestly telling me I can't see a difference between blood red water and clear water?

I tried the things listed above tonight and THE WATER ISN'T GOING INTO THE BOWL!!! None of it. I placed coloring directly by each "opening" of the tank. It sits there. It disperses. And then gradually, the water disappears. The bowl is crystal clear. The floor is dry. And the effing toilet just runs every 10 minutes.

I've almost got to believe that maybe there's a hole in the base somewhere and the water is just being pulled down the body of the toilet? In which case I can't fix that, I don't know how to replace an entire toilet and I'll just have to tell guests to turn the water on when they need to use the toilet and back off when they finish.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I don't know how to replace an entire toilet
You replaced the flush valve, which involved pulling the tank? You could replace a toilet, or find somebody who will.

No plumber in my area will come to an apartment without the ok of the property manager which they obviously won't give.
That is certainly not obvious to me. Have you asked the property manager? Ask in person first, and if the manager refuses, try again with a certified letter.
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,942
Reaction score
3,459
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
The last time I had water leaking out of the tank, it was the flush valve. The second flush valve worked. It's a good idea to sand the inside of the tank to get a smooth surface. It's too bad you've done all of this and it's still a problem. If it makes you feel any better, The last one that needed two flush valves, that was 1.5 hours round trip to make it work.
Any toilet at a hardware store would work better than the old Mansfield 160 that you have there. It's too bad they won't pay for a replacement.

You may want to remove the chlorine tablet from the tank. Those things will void any warranty. They are very hard on the seals.
 

Chevyguy

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Eugene, OR.
You're honestly telling me I can't see a difference between blood red water and clear water?

I tried the things listed above tonight and THE WATER ISN'T GOING INTO THE BOWL!!! None of it. I placed coloring directly by each "opening" of the tank. It sits there. It disperses. And then gradually, the water disappears. The bowl is crystal clear. The floor is dry. And the effing toilet just runs every 10 minutes.

I've almost got to believe that maybe there's a hole in the base somewhere and the water is just being pulled down the body of the toilet? In which case I can't fix that, I don't know how to replace an entire toilet and I'll just have to tell guests to turn the water on when they need to use the toilet and back off when they finish.

Just curious if you ever fixed your toilet. I'ed pull the tank and put a Korky Flush Valve with a flapper in it and be done with that crappy Mansfield valve.

Clayton
 

Sylvan

Still learning
Messages
2,756
Reaction score
689
Points
113
Location
New York
IF you want to test for leaks use instant coffee inside the tank
 

Chevyguy

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Eugene, OR.
People should put a value on their time . I refuse to paint as a painter can do it faster and cheaper then I can

Rather then wasting time which is money and wasting water why not just replace the toilet?



https://www.plumbersstock.com/gerbe...GUHZFWgx2j4BkTnDG5JjvTDxecSBfznYaAqT-EALw_wcB
Because this toilet is in an apartment that he is renting and the management can't figure out how to repair it, and won't replace it. I just put a Korky rebuild kit in the 20 year old A.S. Colony 1.6 gpf toilet that is in my apartment. it flushes great now. I only call maintenance when my apartment has major problems.

Clayton
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,770
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
If there is an apartment beneath you, you may want to ask them if there's anything showing on their ceiling beneath your toilet.
 

Sylvan

Still learning
Messages
2,756
Reaction score
689
Points
113
Location
New York
If your really losing water the management company will be getting a very higher then normal water bill and face possible fines

Also if water is leaking from the tank as much as you say is being lost there should be some condensation on the tank and that can lead to mold.

IF there is mold because management failed to main their fixtures properly you have has a great case as it can cause repository problems and other serious health issues

Sometimes a minor problem can lead to amazing awards from a jury

Just keep documenting how many times you called and how they responded

POI

If your dabbling in repairs then in court the judge may rule last one to attempt repairs is responsible

In NYC when faced with inept managing companies that fail to maintain the building properly A call to the DEP reporting water wasted normally gets an inspector to issue a fine
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks