Toilet flange ripped off on lead pipe in concrete floor - how to fill the gap?

[SDATTIC]

The old toilet flange ripped off my 4" drain pipe.

I was considering installing an Oatey PVC slide in compression flange but don't have a way to secure it (see photo). I filled the gap surrounding the flange with spray foam to form a base - the gap down to the foam is about 1-1/2" to 2" deep. (This is in between floors - so needed a way to hold up from dropping down to the ceiling slab of the next floor.) I planned to fill the rest with concrete.

I was thinking anchoring concrete but the pipe feels a little soft? Maybe that's just the old lead remnants near the top from the last flange? But I'm concerned that because anchoring concrete expands (per the spec sheet) that it might deform the shape of the pipe. Maybe it would be better using hydraulic cement? Or is there a better suggestion entirely?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Adam71]

The old toilet flange ripped off my 4" drain pipe.

I was considering installing an Oatey PVC slide in compression flange but don't have a way to secure it (see photo). I filled the gap surrounding the flange with spray foam to form a base - the gap down to the foam is about 1-1/2" to 2" deep. (This is in between floors - so needed a way to hold up from dropping down to the ceiling slab of the next floor.) I planned to fill the rest with concrete.

I was thinking anchoring concrete but the pipe feels a little soft? Maybe that's just the old lead remnants near the top from the last flange? But I'm concerned that because anchoring concrete expands (per the spec sheet) that it might deform the shape of the pipe. Maybe it would be better using hydraulic cement? Or is there a better suggestion entirely?

View attachment 48461 Thanks for any help.

I had the same thing happen except there was a much larger gap around the drain pipe. I inheretied this problem and only noticed it from toliet being loose. I pulled up toliet and found no flange, the toilet was just sitting on drain pipe with no wax ring and no flange to screw in to. So I am very interested in the professional response. Amazingly the toilet does not leak.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I am not a plumber or other pro.

The hole area around the pipe would typically use mortar rather than hydraulic cement. Hydraulic cement expands as it hardens.

If the ID of the pipe is 4 inches, I would consider Genova Products 75158S Universal Closet Flange with Stainless Steel Ring, 4" (like pushtite http://www.siouxchief.com/products/drainage/residential/closet-flanges/pushtite but big gasket with stainless ring).

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

I have had to deal this before and its not fun..


That looks like a soft LEAD pipe you are looking at.. it is not cast iron...
You have an old LEAD PIPE to deal with so its better to
get a CAST IRON FLANGE and make it grip to the concrete floor....

Also you might want to break out some more of the concrete
floor around on the back side of that pipe to get a more even hole to work with when you pour in the expanding concrete....

Then.... You should get all that foam out of the gap that you filled in..
go out and buy some hydrolic cement that quick sets up fast
go out and buy a 4 inch extra deep cast iron flange and fit it into the hole.
it should have at least a 5 inch deep or more reach down deep into the concrete ...

Dig out the floor around the lead and form fit the cast flange into the hole then fill in the area around the outside of the flange with a very soupy expanding hydrolic cement--- it will turn hot and
expand against the concrete and the flange wont move again...

Remember to work the flange down into the cement to the correct position
for the bolts to line up and work properly .
and then pour or use a stick or tool to get more down
into the center area between the lead and the cast flange
and what ever gaps you have left exposed that will harden up...

This expanding concrete will set up fast so dont fool around
once it sets up it should never move again.....

Most all of these flanges have
a slight lip on the bottom of the pipe so once the concrete sets up
it is gonna grip against the cast lip and not pull up .... or you can even
attach a couple of self tapping screws to the bottom of the flange that will
get buried in the concrete

tap the lead to the sides of the flange as best possible and then use a couple of wax rings to seal the deal down

it aint going anywhere

also , you can glue the toilet down with either silicone to the floor
or just normal caulking and it will never, ever move again....

.

,,,

 

[SDATTIC]

Wow Mark. Thanks very much for all this info and the thorough explanation. The fact that you pointed out it's lead versus cast iron, likely saved me from some pretty large mistakes.

The biggest challenge I have with this solution is that I'm in a condo building with an approx 4"-5" concrete slab. Just below the slab is a 12"+ void above the concrete slab for the unit below. If I removed the spray foam, not only would the hydrolic cement just fall to the top of the ceiling slab of the next unit but it sounds like a 5" flange would actually end up below my unit's concrete slab - there wouldn't be anything to hold it.

If you have any other thoughts, I would love to hear them. Wish you were based on the East coast.
Again, MANY thanks for saving me from making a big problem bigger!

I have had to deal this before and its not fun..


That looks like a soft LEAD pipe you are looking at.. it is not cast iron...
You have an old LEAD PIPE to deal with so its better to
get a CAST IRON FLANGE and make it grip to the concrete floor....

Also you might want to break out some more of the concrete
floor around on the back side of that pipe to get a more even hole to work with when you pour in the expanding concrete....

Then.... You should get all that foam out of the gap that you filled in..
go out and buy some hydrolic cement that quick sets up fast
go out and buy a 4 inch extra deep cast iron flange and fit it into the hole.
it should have at least a 5 inch deep or more reach down deep into the concrete ...

Dig out the floor around the lead and form fit the cast flange into the hole then fill in the area around the outside of the flange with a very soupy expanding hydrolic cement--- it will turn hot and
expand against the concrete and the flange wont move again...

Remember to work the flange down into the cement to the correct position
for the bolts to line up and work properly .
and then pour or use a stick or tool to get more down
into the center area between the lead and the cast flange
and what ever gaps you have left exposed that will harden up...

This expanding concrete will set up fast so dont fool around
once it sets up it should never move again.....

Most all of these flanges have
a slight lip on the bottom of the pipe so once the concrete sets up
it is gonna grip against the cast lip and not pull up .... or you can even
attach a couple of self tapping screws to the bottom of the flange that will
get buried in the concrete

tap the lead to the sides of the flange as best possible and then use a couple of wax rings to seal the deal down

it aint going anywhere

also , you can glue the toilet down with either silicone to the floor
or just normal caulking and it will never, ever move again....

.

,,,

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

If you have someone below you then you are probably in over your head...
you will probably need access to their unit to change out the lead arm and install
PVC or cast iron ...

you will probably need a real plumber to do this..
that lead nipple is gonna be trouble and it could leak into the unit below you..

the only other thing you could do if you want to gamble on it is use one of those pvc flanges
like someone else already has shown and see if you can get a tight fit inside the lead ....
then get some clear silicone and glue the sides of the lead and glue the living shit out of the flange
with an extra amount of silicone and insert it into the lead...

you could also fill the whole cavity up with the silicone and allow it all to set up for a few days.
possibly inserting a few toggle bolts down into the glue cavity through the metal flange to anchor
it down better...

you will most likely have to glue down the toilet to the floor cause the flange might pull up
when you attempt to tighten down the toilet.....

...

 

[SDATTIC]

That's what I was afraid you were going to say. I was starting to think this in your first reply... sounds much more serious than a DIYer should be delving into.

Thanks for helping provide some clarity and letting me know what's involved.

I'll circle back when it's fixed and let you know what happens.

If you have someone below you then you are probably in over your head...
you will probably need access to their unit to change out the lead arm and install
pvc or cast iron ...

you will probably need a real plumber to do this..
that lead nipple is gonna be trouble and it could leak into the unit below you..

the only other thing you could do if you want to gamble on it is use one of those pvc flanges
like someone else already has shown and see if you can get a tight fit inside the lead ....
then get some clear silicone and glue the sides of the lead and glue the living shit out of the flange
with an extra amount of silicone and insert it into the lead...

you could also fill the whole cavity up with the silicone and allow it all to set up for a few days.
possibly inserting a few toggle bolts down into the glue cavity through the metal flange to anchor
it down better...

you will most likely have to glue down the toilet to the floor cause the flange might pull up
when you attempt to tighten down the toilet.....

...

If you have someone below you then you are probably in over your head...
you will probably need access to their unit to change out the lead arm and install
pvc or cast iron ...

you will probably need a real plumber to do this..
that lead nipple is gonna be trouble and it could leak into the unit below you..

the only other thing you could do if you want to gamble on it is use one of those pvc flanges
like someone else already has shown and see if you can get a tight fit inside the lead ....
then get some clear silicone and glue the sides of the lead and glue the living shit out of the flange
with an extra amount of silicone and insert it into the lead...

you could also fill the whole cavity up with the silicone and allow it all to set up for a few days.
possibly inserting a few toggle bolts down into the glue cavity through the metal flange to anchor
it down better...

you will most likely have to glue down the toilet to the floor cause the flange might pull up
when you attempt to tighten down the toilet.....

...

 

[SDATTIC]

For any of you interested, I hired a plumber who did a great job at fixing this repair.

He left the spray foam in tact that I had already put into the void as the base and then filled the rest with Quickrete. He covered the gap with a metal plate - apparently made by a company going out of business. The plate spreads out over the floor allowing for anchoring into the concrete and then provides locations for the flange to screw into. He dropped in an Oatey flange replacement, secured to the plate, added the wax seal and set the toilet. One additional step he took was using plaster to seal the toilet to the floor (instead of caulk around the base). He said this would give a much more secure setting for the toilet and eliminate any movement down below.

Ultimately he was concerned that the lead pipe may have exhausted it's life span but only a test would tell. At this point, seems all is well after several days use.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Good idea,,, worth a try.....Looks good to me....
appears to be one of the Oaty expandable flanges....

Maybe he did this too,, I would have smeared with my hand a whole tube of silicone
caulking on the inside of the lead and on the outside of the flange that he
put into the lead pipe...and put them together then wiped it down into the hole..
just for an extra water proof seal...... Once that sets up it would never, ever leak

I dont know what to think of the plaster of paris on the floor... as long as the seal is
water tight and its solid to the floor you cant ask for more.......

 

[Treeman]

Sorry, deleted.