tycen
New Member
I'm looking for some help and have appreciated searching and browsing in these forums for a few years - time for me to post a question.
Here's the details (I'll try to be as thorough as I can):
- we bought the house in 7/2014 and I've been learning about this well ever since...
- well is dug to 120' (dug in 1984)
- 6" casing
- pump sits at 100' (I replaced it about a year and a half ago)
- well is located in Snohomish County, WA (near the Three Lakes area for any locals)
- I looked up the well drilling log online and it's missing a lot of important details, it seems
- I have a 575 gallon storage tank in my garage that the well pump keeps full (with a float switch) - I get a lot of sand in the storage tank, too
- I have the well pump on a timer to only run every 20 minutes for 1 minute - which is fine since the storage tank allows us to handle the ebb and flow of daily use
When the well is "healthy", it is actually an artesian well with about a 1/2 gallon per minute flowing out the top.
Since we bought the house, about every 4-6 months (but I no longer think the length of time is relevant - more below) I have had to *pump* sand out of my well. I use an "air lift pump" method I found online and it works great! (this video was the most helpful):
).
Basically, I attach an air hose to the bottom of a PVC pipe (or multiple pipes screwed together) and stick it down to the bottom of the well (I'm even able to sort of "push" past my pump and don't have to remove it). Then I rent a big 8.4 CFM electric air compressor and start pumping the air down the hose. Sand and water start spitting out the top. Here's a video I took the first time I did it - I muted the sound because my kids were being noisy in the background. Also, the tripod contraption was from pulling my pipe and well pump - it had nothing to do with the air lift pump part:
When I do this, I clear out around 15 feet of sand (I say that based on the fact when I start my pipes hit the bottom - then after I start pumping I add about 15 feet more of cleanout pipe). It's a fine silty sand. When I get to the real bottom of the well, I get less sand and the water gets more clear and starts to spit out some rocks/clumps of sand (the clumps look like rock, but then crumble when squeezed).
After cleaning it out, the artesian-ness is restored and water comes out the top. When my pump comes on there is a draw-down, then it recovers and water flows out the top again (I have it piped with an air gap into a drain pipe that takes it away).
When the well gets unhealthy, I start to notice that no water is flowing out the top - or that the recovery time is really slow. And, then one day I'll notice my storage tank in the garage is not staying full (or we'll just suddenly run out of water and I find my storage tank empty). When the pump comes on, I can hear it pump water for a second or two, then can hear it run out of water in the pipes going into the storage tank. Time to get out my PVC pipes and go rent the air compressor! Then I pump my 15' or so of sand out and boom - the well fills up and water starts flowing out the top again.
This does not seem seasonal. It has happened to me in February, October, and July. This last time it happened (a couple weeks ago) it happened right after our kid's birthday party where we used a lot of water in one day (slip-in-slide and swimming pool). It was flowing artesian before the party. During the party I noticed the water got sandy. The next day I noticed the artesian flow was gone and shortly after that we ran out of water.
Here's my current theory: when I put a lot of demand on the well and there's a lot of drawdown, the hydrostatic (?) pressure is forcing more sand into the well. Hence the reason it happened so suddenly this last time - I was using a lot of water and turned up the timer on my pump to pull water out more often that one day. My new theory is that if I only run the pump for a minute (it's a 10 GPM pump) every 20 minutes (as needed - the float in the storage tank would also need to be calling for water) then I'll be evening out the pressure on the well and less sand will be pushed in over time. (previously I had the timer set for 3 or more minutes every 30 minutes - so there was more of a drawdown each time).
Here's my questions:
1) is my theory reasonable?
2) how can I keep the sand out altogether down there?
3) for #2, I've wondered about putting a 4" casing down the 6" casing - but what would I do at the bottom of that 4" casing to keep the sand out?
And before anyone says, "call a well guy" - I did call a well guy when this first started. Heck, I even paid $500 for a well inspection before we bought the house! The "well guy" totally missed this issue - he said the timer on the pump was weird, but that was it. He missed the fact the water storage tank was about 1/5 full of sand. I'm not sure how the previous owners lived with it - they didn't disclose any problems. And possibly to their credit, it was an older couple and one of them worked - so probably not a lot of water usage. My family, however, we have a lot of kids so we use a lot of water. Anyway, when I called the well guy back after I ran out of water two weeks after moving into the house, he started by putting a 2GPM dole valve on the inlet of the tank ($200) thinking we were just emptying the well too fast. Then came back and put a broken Pumptec low water detector on the wall and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work (I determined later it was just fired). He left and said he'd go talk to the wholesale house where he bought it and check with his dad (father/son well company). After a week of not hearing from him I called him and he said he was just talking about it with his dad and he'd call me back. I never heard from him. Luckily I didn't get charged for the dead Pumptec or that last visit where he installed it. I called some other well guys and they just wanted to drill a new well. Not wanting to pay any more money I went to work on researching all this myself, and went on to pull out the old pump with 100' of galvanized pipe (using a chain hoist and a pipe gripping contraption I came up with). Of course, the pump wasn't the problem after all, but at least now I know there's a new pump down there. And of course I put poly pipe back in so if I have to pull it again it will be a lot easier.
I have called a couple well guys and a few have been willing to talk about it, but haven't had any suggestions - other guys just want to drill a new well.
I just bought a GoPro camera (actually a cheaper knock-off version) - and hopefully this weekend I'm going to put it on the end of my PVC pipes with some bright glow sticks and send it down the well to see if I can see what it looks like down there at the bottom. I'll post an update when I do.
I really appreciate any ideas/suggestions/help!
Here's the details (I'll try to be as thorough as I can):
- we bought the house in 7/2014 and I've been learning about this well ever since...
- well is dug to 120' (dug in 1984)
- 6" casing
- pump sits at 100' (I replaced it about a year and a half ago)
- well is located in Snohomish County, WA (near the Three Lakes area for any locals)
- I looked up the well drilling log online and it's missing a lot of important details, it seems
- I have a 575 gallon storage tank in my garage that the well pump keeps full (with a float switch) - I get a lot of sand in the storage tank, too
- I have the well pump on a timer to only run every 20 minutes for 1 minute - which is fine since the storage tank allows us to handle the ebb and flow of daily use
When the well is "healthy", it is actually an artesian well with about a 1/2 gallon per minute flowing out the top.
Since we bought the house, about every 4-6 months (but I no longer think the length of time is relevant - more below) I have had to *pump* sand out of my well. I use an "air lift pump" method I found online and it works great! (this video was the most helpful):
Basically, I attach an air hose to the bottom of a PVC pipe (or multiple pipes screwed together) and stick it down to the bottom of the well (I'm even able to sort of "push" past my pump and don't have to remove it). Then I rent a big 8.4 CFM electric air compressor and start pumping the air down the hose. Sand and water start spitting out the top. Here's a video I took the first time I did it - I muted the sound because my kids were being noisy in the background. Also, the tripod contraption was from pulling my pipe and well pump - it had nothing to do with the air lift pump part:
When I do this, I clear out around 15 feet of sand (I say that based on the fact when I start my pipes hit the bottom - then after I start pumping I add about 15 feet more of cleanout pipe). It's a fine silty sand. When I get to the real bottom of the well, I get less sand and the water gets more clear and starts to spit out some rocks/clumps of sand (the clumps look like rock, but then crumble when squeezed).
After cleaning it out, the artesian-ness is restored and water comes out the top. When my pump comes on there is a draw-down, then it recovers and water flows out the top again (I have it piped with an air gap into a drain pipe that takes it away).
When the well gets unhealthy, I start to notice that no water is flowing out the top - or that the recovery time is really slow. And, then one day I'll notice my storage tank in the garage is not staying full (or we'll just suddenly run out of water and I find my storage tank empty). When the pump comes on, I can hear it pump water for a second or two, then can hear it run out of water in the pipes going into the storage tank. Time to get out my PVC pipes and go rent the air compressor! Then I pump my 15' or so of sand out and boom - the well fills up and water starts flowing out the top again.
This does not seem seasonal. It has happened to me in February, October, and July. This last time it happened (a couple weeks ago) it happened right after our kid's birthday party where we used a lot of water in one day (slip-in-slide and swimming pool). It was flowing artesian before the party. During the party I noticed the water got sandy. The next day I noticed the artesian flow was gone and shortly after that we ran out of water.
Here's my current theory: when I put a lot of demand on the well and there's a lot of drawdown, the hydrostatic (?) pressure is forcing more sand into the well. Hence the reason it happened so suddenly this last time - I was using a lot of water and turned up the timer on my pump to pull water out more often that one day. My new theory is that if I only run the pump for a minute (it's a 10 GPM pump) every 20 minutes (as needed - the float in the storage tank would also need to be calling for water) then I'll be evening out the pressure on the well and less sand will be pushed in over time. (previously I had the timer set for 3 or more minutes every 30 minutes - so there was more of a drawdown each time).
Here's my questions:
1) is my theory reasonable?
2) how can I keep the sand out altogether down there?
3) for #2, I've wondered about putting a 4" casing down the 6" casing - but what would I do at the bottom of that 4" casing to keep the sand out?
And before anyone says, "call a well guy" - I did call a well guy when this first started. Heck, I even paid $500 for a well inspection before we bought the house! The "well guy" totally missed this issue - he said the timer on the pump was weird, but that was it. He missed the fact the water storage tank was about 1/5 full of sand. I'm not sure how the previous owners lived with it - they didn't disclose any problems. And possibly to their credit, it was an older couple and one of them worked - so probably not a lot of water usage. My family, however, we have a lot of kids so we use a lot of water. Anyway, when I called the well guy back after I ran out of water two weeks after moving into the house, he started by putting a 2GPM dole valve on the inlet of the tank ($200) thinking we were just emptying the well too fast. Then came back and put a broken Pumptec low water detector on the wall and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work (I determined later it was just fired). He left and said he'd go talk to the wholesale house where he bought it and check with his dad (father/son well company). After a week of not hearing from him I called him and he said he was just talking about it with his dad and he'd call me back. I never heard from him. Luckily I didn't get charged for the dead Pumptec or that last visit where he installed it. I called some other well guys and they just wanted to drill a new well. Not wanting to pay any more money I went to work on researching all this myself, and went on to pull out the old pump with 100' of galvanized pipe (using a chain hoist and a pipe gripping contraption I came up with). Of course, the pump wasn't the problem after all, but at least now I know there's a new pump down there. And of course I put poly pipe back in so if I have to pull it again it will be a lot easier.
I have called a couple well guys and a few have been willing to talk about it, but haven't had any suggestions - other guys just want to drill a new well.
I just bought a GoPro camera (actually a cheaper knock-off version) - and hopefully this weekend I'm going to put it on the end of my PVC pipes with some bright glow sticks and send it down the well to see if I can see what it looks like down there at the bottom. I'll post an update when I do.
I really appreciate any ideas/suggestions/help!