1954 Rehab [tile redi] full bath relo - Need feedback to get off the ground, please..

[FL Homeowner]

Hello… Thankful to anyone that takes a moment to help… !! Learning tons and can't pretend to know it all... DIYr with more time than money...

Looking for direct feedback on my rehab project. I’ll spare you the dramaitic details – in short, mom is in a wheelchair and I’m relocating the bathroom to increase the size from 5x7 to 10x10. I do have permits for this build and assigned an inspector, but he isn’t a ‘friendly’ county inspector… I’d like to get a few things out in the open:
-Home is now vacant
-1954 house with 25†crawl space
-single bath
-Exiting plumbing was (removed) black cast
-septic tank
-2x4 construction
-3 of the 4 walls bath walls are bearing
-Using a 60x40 Tile Redi pan zero barrier

My initial concern is the current waste pipe location(distance). I don’t know what the story is below the ground. My guess is it moves AWAY from the new location.
The old bathroom has been gutted (both rooms are down to the studs) - I have to move forward...

[Q] What are some options to achieve the new toilet relocation with respect to distance from waste pipe and venting on the non-bearing wall for new sink/shower/toilet?
Thank you! Craig

 

[ilya]

Excellent drawing! Moving that toilet is an issue-what Code is Florida under? That will determine the maximum distance from the toilet to the "Main stack", which you are calling "waste into septic tank". Your new toilet may have to be just across the wall from the old sink. Or you will be digging into the crawlspace dirt to move that main stack...either way plan on taking up the floor.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[FL Homeowner]

Excellent drawing! Moving that toilet is an issue-what Code is Florida under? That will determine the maximum distance from the toilet to the "Main stack", which you are calling "waste into septic tank". Your new toilet may have to be just across the wall from the old sink. Or you will be digging into the crawlspace dirt to move that main stack...either way plan on taking up the floor.

Hi... thanks for your response!! I've yet to find an exact section that addresses the distance from the toilet to the main stack - 2010 FL Plumbing code doesn't clearly address that however does state that the MAX sanitary slope is 1/8 for pipes 3"-6". 1/8 or .125x15'=1.875' drop. I've got that in the current height above ground - hmm...!!! "codes based on 2009 International Plumbing Code"

Yes, the floor will come up as I want to give the inspector (and myself) the best access possible.

Is a 15' run insane? If I dig the main stack up to move closer(TBD), its that effectively the same since the distance to the septic tank doesnt change? Of course I'm open to the host of real reasons too!!

Your new toilet may have to be just across the wall from the old sink.
True, the heartbreak with that is I wanted this layout to for her ease of use and the doors stay open when unoccupied and I'd have to place a half wall to cover the toilet from being visible from the living room and to support ADA rails... Not ruling that out - just my initial response.

 

[FL Homeowner]

Edit... Old info - moved to new design below.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Your code is IPC so the least of your worries is venting the toilet. The most of your problems are venting the tub and the lav, both of which are too far away from the existing vent for it to be any use at all. You will need to run at least one but probably two 1-1/2" vents for the tub and lav each. That's a pretty ambitious project to DIY. You have old hub & spigot cast iron to deal with as well as vertical penetrations through exterior walls and a host of other difficulties as well.

 

[FL Homeowner]

Your code is IPC so the least of your worries is venting the toilet. The most of your problems are venting the tub and the lav, both of which are too far away from the existing vent for it to be any use at all. You will need to run at least one but probably two 1-1/2" vents for the tub and lav each. That's a pretty ambitious project to DIY. You have old hub & spigot cast iron to deal with as well as vertical penetrations through exterior walls and a host of other difficulties as well.

Thank you! Stopped by for a visit with mom.... I'm working on revised design to get closer to the existing vent for the lav, but the shower is a tough one... I've got the ceiling exposed and would rather gather vent pipes in the attic.

Pics are of another 1-1/2 vent cut into a bearing wall - not saying that is correct (1954) only sharing the pics.
The second is the 1-1/2 PVC going through the roof from the orignal vent location marked with a black circle.

 

[Jadnashua]

You can legally reconnect vents in the attic prior to exiting the roof with one (you may be required to make the roof penetration bigger in diameter than the individual pieces coming together). Both the horizontal vents and the drains need a minimum of 1/4"/foot slope, so over your nearly 15', you'd have to drop nearly 4" so that may be the hardest thing to accomplish with the depth of the trap from the shower and the elbow for the toilet. As long as you have the proper slope, the horizontal distance isn't an issue; it's getting the required drop and still being able to make the connection that may be an issue.

 

[FL Homeowner]

You can legally reconnect vents in the attic prior to exiting the roof with one (you may be required to make the roof penetration bigger in diameter than the individual pieces coming together). Both the horizontal vents and the drains need a minimum of 1/4"/foot slope, so over your nearly 15', you'd have to drop nearly 4" so that may be the hardest thing to accomplish with the depth of the trap from the shower and the elbow for the toilet. As long as you have the proper slope, the horizontal distance isn't an issue; it's getting the required drop and still being able to make the connection that may be an issue.

Thanks for taking a moment to help sort this out...! I see your point.... The shower drain distance yeilds an approx 4' slope to reach the main stack.

[Q] Since I have roughly 2' above, would connecting to the main below ground level be out of the question? (assuming the main stack contiues below)

 

[FL Homeowner]

Edit... Old info - moved to new design below.

 

[FL Homeowner]

OKay - With what I've learned, its best to change the layout design to placing Shower/Lav/toilet on on the same wall and that wall is the best way to go. If I get too creative and press my luck and skill the inspector will too get creative. I doubt he will be impressed with my effort.... And with that... Here is the final layout.

[Q] Looks to be about 6'-7' from the main stack. Am I okay to now design the drain and vent connections? Should be a straight forward design and ask & welcome feedback, please. I plan to use the existing vent out of the roof as noted with the black dot.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think you are putting too much thought into the main stack. Your individual vents for fixtures can either tie into it in the attic or you can just poke new vents through the roof. That main stack was how things used to be done when they required a vent for the main horizontal drain.

 

[FL Homeowner]

I think you are putting too much thought into the main stack. Your individual vents for fixtures can either tie into it in the attic or you can just poke new vents through the roof. That main stack was how things used to be done when they required a vent for the main horizontal drain.

Thanks so much for the feedback..!! You are 100% correct - The main stack is consuming me...!! I'm okay with the new changes and think the trap vents will tie into a single within the attic and exit the existing roof hole. The drawing is CRUDE, but I'm having 3D mental block. This is from the side and top. Vents are in orange.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If the framing will allow then what you have there should suffice. There is a good chance that you could get rid of the main stack altogether depending on the plumbing in the rest of the house..

 

[FL Homeowner]

If the framing will allow then what you have there should suffice. There is a good chance that you could get rid of the main stack altogether depending on the plumbing in the rest of the house..

The framing is a non-bearing wall and will support design. As for the rest of the house there is only a kitchen sink that is connected to septic via an outdoor vented pipe with an access plug. What is interesting to me about the main stack is that is the entire stack. I looked in the attic and the pipe never looked to exit the current roof. Should vent under the house like it is/was.. The toilet sat directly on the extreme vertical of the pipe and waste went straight down. The horizontal opening was not connected to any piping or sealed... I'd like to get that cast out of there and replace with PVC soonest!!

 

[FL Homeowner]

Alright.... I've cut the cast down to the lowest hub. *This is actually a 90 into the ground. *I cleaned out the hub and its ready to accept a rubber donut into 4"PVC. *From there I have a drawing of the plumbing layout. *I want to run 4" and vent with 4X4x2 Ys rolled for the lav and shower. *My drawing also has a 4x4x2 vertical vent for the toilet. *So, 1 vent for each fixture. *Before I toss up the proposed vent system - Is this proper? Better ideas etc... *I have to pass FL Code.
Thank you!!!!

 

[FL Homeowner]

I've got the 4' PVC into the the cast hub via rubber donut from LOWES. It was a snug fit and I used soap to help slip the PVC into the donut. The donut was 3" wide and I got the PVC down 4" in total. The rubber flange is sitting pretty on top of the hub.

Without anyone jumping to my rescue, I purchased all fittings and pipe to plumb in 3" ARE THERE OBJECTIONS?

Also, I believe my FL Plumbing Code (based on IPC) states that every turn greater than 45 has to have a clean out. Cleanouts must be accessible and above the floor etc. Does that apply to this design? The only main stack is in the center of the home and the only cleanout I can find is outside located on the drain of the sink. Exterior kitchen plumbing!!! NICE!!

Thanks Guys!!

 

[FL Homeowner]

Here we go... This is the dry fit. Any feedback on the cleanout and any other comments are welcome... THANK YOU!!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Don't put the 3 x 2 san-tee backwards like that.

 

[Jadnashua]

Hope you realize that if things are where you want them now, when you start gluing those pieces together, you'll come up short! Each of the pipe connections will slide into the hub more once you add the cement - maybe 1/2", maybe more, maybe less. The pipe should be bottomed in the hub, and that's almost impossible to do on a dry fit...luckily, the pipe is cheap.

 

[FL Homeowner]

Been away from my project with travel for work.

Thanks so much!! Yes! Nice catch on the San-Tee!!

I will cut the final 3" pipe lengths one at a time and with consideration for fitting completely in the hub.

I'll kee updating with my progress!! THANKS AGAIN!!