Outlet question-

[wrdtlpf]

Hope someone can help me. Just bought a place short time back and now cash strapped. There are 20 amp breakers in the panel for a couple different runs of outlets. There are heavy duty ivory 20 amp outlets in place right now but want to switch them out for white and was wondering if I can just put in 15 amp outlets on the 20 amp run or do I have to change the breaker too? What would happen if I put 15 amp outlets in and left the 20 breaker in place? The 20 amp outlets are like $7 each and can get regular 15 amp outlets for pennies compared. TIA-

 

[Jimbo]

You can put multiple 15 amp receptacle devices on a 20 amp breaker. In my opinon, it would be a mistake to use the recepeptacles which you can by for 69 cents. Very flimsy. Spring $3.50 or so to get a good quality unit. Or buy the cheapies and use the money saved to up your fire insurance. Your choice.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Per my understanding of the new code cycle, if you replace any 120V outlets, you must now replace them with tamper resistant ones.

 

[Jimbo]

Per my understanding of the new code cycle, if you replace any 120V outlets, you must now replace them with tamper resistant ones.

I don't think the latest NEC gets adopted immediately by every city and state, so he may or may not have that hanging over him. And I suspect that in many cases, just replacing an outlet does not mandate the upgrade. REMODEL is where current codes get called in. But check with local authority for final answer.

 

[ActionDave]

Per my understanding of the new code cycle, if you replace any 120V outlets, you must now replace them with tamper resistant ones.

You are correct.

406.4 D (5) Tamper-Resistant Receptacles. Listed tamper-resis-
tant receptacles shall be provided where replacements are
made at receptacle outlets that are required to be tamper-
resistant elsewhere in this Code.

Areas required elsewhere in this code is pretty much everywhere in the house.

 

[Jim Port]

In addition, any area that would require GFI protection would need it installed should the devices be changed out.

 

[Jimbo]

You are correct.

406.4 D (5) Tamper-Resistant Receptacles. Listed tamper-resis-
tant receptacles shall be provided where replacements are
made at receptacle outlets that are required to be tamper-
resistant elsewhere in this Code.

Areas required elsewhere in this code is pretty much everywhere in the house.

That takes me back to my other question. I assume from the WALL of non-tamper proof outlets that are found in all the stores, including the wholesale electric supply houses.....that this requirement does not currently have the effect of law in many cities????

 

[DonL]

This is a good example of why people do their own work.

If you charge for your service or do it for a living then you Must meet the NEW Codes.

All work should be done by a Qualified Electrician. What makes a person Qualified ?

When was the last time You called an inspector after replacing a Wall Outlet or light switch ?

Or when you replaced the bad end of your extension cord ? Repairing it is a code violation.


If you are a code Freak, More Power to you. Most people just want it working safely.


I say buy good replacement parts and save the Inspector Fee.


I think that tamper-resistant is a Joke. Just makes people want to Tamper with it.


Be careful playing with electricity...

 

[JWelectric]

This is a good example of why people do their own work. If you charge for your service or do it for a living then you Must meet the NEW Codes.

The codes must be met no matter what type of installation or who is making the installations

All work should be done by a Qualified Electrician. What makes a person Qualified ?

As defined by the NEC; One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved.
Pay close attention to the last half of that definition

When was the last time You called an inspector after replacing a Wall Outlet or light switch ?

Last week

Or when you replaced the bad end of your extension cord ? Repairing it is a code violation.

It could be a listing violation and one that OSHA frowns on

If you are a code Freak, More Power to you. Most people just want it working safely.

This is the purpose of the inspection process. Anything that is non code compliant is an unsafe installation, see 90.1
90.1 Purpose.
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.

I say buy good replacement parts and save the Inspector Fee.

Your homeowners insurance may disagree with you. It may very well jump up to bite you should you decide to sell.

I think that tamper-resistant is a Joke. Just makes people want to Tamper with it.

And therefore the purpose of the tamper resistant device. The ones that want to tamper with them the most are children.

Be careful playing with electricity...

Good advice

 

[BobL43]

Be careful playing with electricity...

Now THAT is good advice

 

[wrdtlpf]

Thanks guys, appreciate it.

 

[Jadnashua]

The internal construction of the cheapy and a quality receptacle is quite different...don't skimp.

 

[ActionDave]

That takes me back to my other question. I assume from the WALL of non-tamper proof outlets that are found in all the stores, including the wholesale electric supply houses.....that this requirement does not currently have the effect of law in many cities????

You are correct, not every area adopts the new code the year it is issued, besides there is no law against manufacturing non-tamper recpts, there is no law against buying non-tamper recpts, now all we need to do is decide what to do with them.

 

[Jimbo]

You are correct, not every area adopts the new code the year it is issued, besides there is no law against manufacturing non-tamper recpts, there is no law against buying non-tamper recpts, now all we need to do is decide what to do with them.

That is an interesting concept. I mention some plumbing parallels...it is not legal to SELL a high-flow toilet, or leaded brass faucet ( in certain states today, more states in 2013, and federally in 2014). Even in the electrical arena, I believe it is no longer legal to manufacture or import a magnetic T12 ballast. I think it was legal for sellers to sell though all their inventory.

 

[hj]

quote; When was the last time You called an inspector after replacing a Wall Outlet or light switch ?Last week

Really? That repair must have been really expensive since you had to obtain a permit, and the cost would have been charged to the customer, and some inspectors want the contractor on the job when they do the inspection, which adds more to the bill. Sounds like you changed a $105 job into a $200.00 one.

One problem with 15 amp receptacles in a 20 amp circuit, is that it should be #12 wire, and cheap outlets may only have back wiring, in which case the openings will be too small for a #12 wire.

 

[JWelectric]

quote; When was the last time You called an inspector after replacing a Wall Outlet or light switch ?Last week

Really? That repair must have been really expensive since you had to obtain a permit, and the cost would have been charged to the customer, and some inspectors want the contractor on the job when they do the inspection, which adds more to the bill. Sounds like you changed a $105 job into a $200.00 one.

The total bid for changing out all the devices was $$$. The inspections assured that the homeowner’s insurance requirements were fulfilled and there would be no questions should something go wrong a couple of years down the road.

It also insured that should he decide to sell there is a record of the work done in the house through the inspection department and no hidden secrets for a home inspector to find.

Everything was done to the requirements set forth by the Licensing Board and the DOI as outlined in the laws set forth by North Carolina.

The bottom line is; the cost of the permit is nothing more than insurance for the insurance company. It assures that the work was done in a code compliant manner and there is no danger imposed by the work that was done.