Should a garbage disposal be on a GFCI?

Users who are viewing this thread

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
I'm not going to bother to address each of your points. YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary
If the sink is not in contact with earth is some matter how is it grounded? I think you are grasping at straws here as you sure don’t understand the concepts of grounding and bonding.
I'm pretty sure code here dictated that my copper supply lines be bonded to ground. The copper supply lines connect to the faucet and the faucet connects to the sink.

As for my understanding of grounding and bonding, it is a requirement of my profession. I design/build/install server rooms, backup generator systems and UPSs, as well as wired and wireless indoor/outdoor communications infrastructure, all of which must meet code with regard to bonding and grounding.
 

Joe Six Pack

New Member
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Anchorage AK
Oh Dude,
I'm so glad you mentioned all this wiring stuff about a disposer. I'm not going to let my woman do dishes anymore. I have a non bonded or Gfi'ed sink too. It's cind of cold here, but I'm thinking I should wash dishes outside until I can get that sucker grounded,. Now I'm arfraid to go near my sink.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
Bonding and grounding things has little to do with when a GFCI is required. They each have their place and provide various levels of protection. If you WANT a GFCI, you certainly CAN put one in the circuit, but it is not required. Think of what a GFCI does: it checks the line to neutral power flow, and if it differs, it shuts the power off. You don't even NEED a ground for the thing to work. It assumes that if the input and return current aren't the same, some of it leaked, and that leak MIGHT be through you to ground. To protect you, it shuts off. So, ANY time one trips, whatever is plugged into it is suspect, as NO current devices are supposed to leak current, or at least enough to trip one, and therefore hurt you.
 

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
Now I'm arfraid to go near my sink.
Don't worry... I thinks it's better off not grounded. Maybe you could get the wife to wear rubber gloves. I know back on the farm, rubber boots took the sting out of the electric fence. Had fun with that fence and my cousins from the city who thought themselves so superior.

As for defective tools, explain how a chop saw with just two wires (double insulated, no ground) would not trip the GFCI while it was running, but the moment you release the trigger, it might trip it. Putting a meter on it shows no continuity to the body. A quick Google search will turn up a lot of instances where refrigerators and wash machines trip some GFCIs. Again, I don't claim that every motor will trip every GFCI hence the YMMV.
 

Jim Port

Electrical Contractor
Messages
156
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Maryland
Website
www.manta.com
As someone already said, if the tool or appliance is tripping the GFI there is a problem that the GFI is sensing and shutting off. Have the tool or appliance serviced or replaced.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,600
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
IF the switch is going to become a "hazard" the GFCI outlet under the sink would do absolutely NOTHING to prevent it from happening, since it is in line before the receptacle.
 

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
If the switch is between the supply and the outlet, you are correct. There are other ways to GFCI protect than to use a GFCI outlet at the end of the line.

From my panel, I have a hot and neutral going to a GFCI outlet. From the load side of the outlet, it goes to a switch. From the switch it goes to several outlets under my eaves. Everything downstream of the GFCI outlet and of course the outlet itself is protected. This passed inspection in 1998.
 

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
I'm not going to bother to address each of your points. YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary
I'm pretty sure code here dictated that my copper supply lines be bonded to ground. The copper supply lines connect to the faucet and the faucet connects to the sink.

As for my understanding of grounding and bonding, it is a requirement of my profession. I design/build/install server rooms, backup generator systems and UPSs, as well as wired and wireless indoor/outdoor communications infrastructure, all of which must meet code with regard to bonding and grounding.

Okay now that you have expressed a knowledge of the bonding of metallic water pipe and an understanding of grounding devices and I assume an understanding of the bonding of the equipment grounding, grounding electrode, metallic enclosure and the system’s grounded conductor that you would know that the touch potential between the sink and the switch would be equal. In other words there would be no danger in touching the metal 6/32 screws holding the nonmetallic cover in place over the switch as there would be an equal optional between them.
 

Erico

Member
Messages
151
Reaction score
6
Points
18
Location
Chicago, IL
So we have a guy that works in an IT department for his day job that used an air switch in his home.

And all the electrical contractors that wire homes for a living, that know what the code says and can wire to code saying; No. a GFI is not used.
Sounds like the question has been answered.

NO GFI needed for a disposer.
Thanks to all the sparky's that had a handle on this.
Wow! Quite a discussion has broken out over my question. At first I was feeling like a step-child when the replies were a little light.

Yes. I listen to the known sparkys on the site. And thanks to you and them for the site and the help.

I did wire it w/o GFCI. Bt I DID install a GFCI in the same box for a future possible hot water dispenser.

I'm not opposed to spending the few extra bucks or even wasting the few extra bucks if it makes it more safe. I was worried about possible trip issues with a motor such as a g/d.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
I am surprised that our code goobs have not yet required ALL GFCI breakers in the main panel, less the main. That would make a safe house.
 

Speedy Petey

Licensed Electrical Contractor
Messages
1,108
Reaction score
9
Points
38
Location
NY State, USA
I am surprised that our code goobs have not yet required ALL GFCI breakers in the main panel, less the main. That would make a safe house.

No, but they DO require AFCI's in almost every place that does not require GFIs.
Padded walls are next.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
The code goobs need a month in a padded room.

They'll dream up a automatic net that senses a fall on the stairs and shoots it across like an airbag. One per each 8' of height change.

Since it will now be raining in our houses due to required sprinkler systems, they likely will get the idea that GFCI is needed everywhere.
 

SteinEE

New Member
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Illinois
I know this is an old posting but just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I think technically in most instances the electrical guys here were correct but not in all instances. If you look at the NEC specifically in 210.8(B) item (2) you will see that all 125 volt single pahse 15 and 20 amp receptacles in kitchens in OTHER THAN DWELLING UNITS require ground fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel.

Then if you want a little more info on the specific code section that allows garbage disposals to be cord-and-plug connected with a flexible cord then look in NEC 422.16(B)(1). This requires a grounded plug, a flexible cord between 18"-36", and an accessible receptacle that will avoid any possible physical damage to the flexible cord. There is no specific mention to GFCI protection here as there are with other appliances such as electric drinking fountains[422.52] which is a somewhat similar situation.

If you try to avoid this confusion and hardwire this appliance you may still get yourself into a pickle becasue you need to comply with 422.31(A) or (B). If your permanently connected appliance is rated not over 300 VA or 1/8 HP the branch ciruit overcurrent device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means but if it is over 300VA or 1/8 HP the branch circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means if it is within sight of the appliance (code dictates that this is also within 50') or capable of being locked in the open position. So you would have to add a padlockable hasp to the circuit breaker serving the appliance or swap out the switch for a lockable version.


I hope that satifies your code requirements.
 

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
The switch above the counter is all the disconnect that would be required and no lock is required.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,600
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
quote; Don't most disposers have an air coupled push button?

Only the ones when the customer opts to pay for one. I am getting ready to "remodel" my sink and will install the air button, but only to fill up the sixth faucet hole on the sink. I try NEVER to use a GFCI with any motor that is "permanently" plugged in. I have seen too many instances when the GFCI "phantom trips", and the contents of freezers and/or refrigerators have spoiled, sometimes with damage to the residence when the frozen items melt and leak out.
 
Last edited:

Speedy Petey

Licensed Electrical Contractor
Messages
1,108
Reaction score
9
Points
38
Location
NY State, USA
I know this is an old posting but just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I think technically in most instances the electrical guys here were correct but not in all instances. If you look at the NEC specifically in 210.8(B) item (2) you will see that all 125 volt single pahse 15 and 20 amp receptacles in kitchens in OTHER THAN DWELLING UNITS require ground fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel.
Yes, this is correct, but the OP Is a DIY and it is obvious he is talking about his own home kitchen.

Without going back and reading every post, I don't think anyone mentioned a commercial kitchen.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
Commercial kitchens should send their waste to a hog farm or a composter. Just like every homeowner can find a spot to make compost in a old trash can missing the bottom. A dog and a few chickens can live on the average familys wasted food. Never got a damn egg from a disposal. The septic pumpers LOVE them.

Fights break out in China for who gets to clean the public toilets, and collect restaurant trash. I suppose our kids are too busy playing computer murder games to take the slop to the worms.

I hope our water conservationists soon ban disposals. Like the toilet replacement programs, the gov can send you a bag of red worms and a plastic bin. Save water, electricity and septic tanks and treatment plant burden, all in one shot. Better program than flourescents.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks