Well Bacteria fix

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4me2see

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Take 6 to 12 feet of 1 inch stainless tubing or pipe. Wrap its length with 1/4 inch soft copper tubing !/4 inch apart tightly to the stainless steel. Tie it secerley with heavy copper wire.. In water the copper will have a electrolysis to the stainless. That will kill bacteria. I have been using this for over 5 years. It was developed by me and a smart friend of mine from Canada. Mr. Mike Monett. We call it the Pat and Mike bacteria Killer. You may leave it in your well forever. No more flashing the well.
 

DonL

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Take 6 to 12 feet of 1 inch stainless tubing or pipe. Wrap its length with 1/4 inch soft copper tubing !/4 inch apart tightly to the stainless steel. Tie it secerley with heavy copper wire.. In water the copper will have a electrolysis to the stainless. That will kill bacteria. I have been using this for over 5 years. It was developed by me and a smart friend of mine from Canada. Mr. Mike Monett. We call it the Pat and Mike bacteria Killer. You may leave it in your well forever. No more flashing the well.

Do you have a website where I can buy one and send you money ?

What type of bacteria does it kill ?


DonL
 

4me2see

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How did you test bacteria before and after the installation and what was count?

Never had a test. The water taste good and no oder. It was real bad- Iron bacteria. It does not require power From the internet copper is efective against all bacteria. My partners e mail is --jku-8m35@binsap.--- Mike Monett.
 

4me2see

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It should kill all bacteria. I had Iron Bacteria. I do not sell it but sombody should. It is Mike Monetts and mines gift to mankind His email is---jku-8m35@binsap.
 

Mike Monett

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More Info on Well Bacteria Fix

Hi, I'm the Mike in the Pat and Mike team. I'll try to explain a bit
more of how the bacteria killer works.

Iron and sulphur bacteria are small living organisms that naturally
occur in soil. They combine iron or manganese, present in well
water, and form unpleasant a slimy coating on everything. For those
who understand a bit of chemistry, here is a description of one
process.

The slime is caused by iron bacteria converting the ferrous iron,
Fe2(+), to ferric iron, Fe3(+). The equation is

Fe2(+) + H(+) + 1/4O2 --> Fe3(+) + 1/2H2O

The ferric iron (Fe3(+)) then reacts with water to form insoluble
iron hydroxides (Fe(OH)3) as shown here:

Fe3(+) + 3H2O --> Fe(OH)3 + 3H(+)

Similar reactions can also occur with manganese and sulphur. More
information is here:

http://www.webs.uidaho.edu/gwemo/reports/Iron_Bact_Remediation.pdf

For those who prefer word descriptions, here is a description from
Wikipedia:

In the management of water-supply wells, iron bacteria are bacteria
that derive the energy they need to live and multiply by oxidizing
dissolved ferrous iron (or the less frequently available manganese).

The resulting ferric oxide is insoluble, and appears as brown
gelatinous slime that will stain plumbing fixtures, and clothing or
utensils washed with the water carrying it. They are known to grow
and proliferate in waters containing as low as 0.1mg/l of iron.

However, at least 0.3 ppm of dissolved oxygen is needed to carry out
oxidation."

Common effects of excess iron in water are a reddish-brown color,
stained laundry and poor tasting coffee. An equally common but less
well understood problem is infestation of water supplies with iron
bacteria. Iron bacteria are a natural part of the environment in
most parts of the world. These microorganisms combine dissolved iron
or manganese with oxygen and use it to form rust-colored deposits.

In the process, the bacteria produce a brown slime that builds up on
well screens, pipes, and plumbing fixtures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_bacteria

The usual method to control well bacteria is by shock chlorination.

Here are some examples of the procedure:

http://www.prairiewaternews.ca/back/vol2no2/v22_st7.html

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex1142

www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/dwg/febact.htm

www.gov.ns.ca/nse/water/docs/droponwaterFAQ_IronBacteria.pdf

Unfortunately, chlorination has a number of problems. It is
time-consuming, it can leave an objectionable residue in the system
that may take weeks to dissipate, and it does not always work very
well.

Pat has been using a different method for many years. It consists of
silver coins attached to a copper pipe. He used it to keep his well
clear of bacteria, and he posted the techique to a forum where I
spotted it.

It was clear the technique works due to a small voltage that is
generated when the silver and copper are in contact and placed in a
conductive solution.

The Galvanic Table from MIL-STD-889 shows that copper is positive
with respect to silver:

http://l-36.com/corrosion.php

The metals that are closer to the top of the list are positive, or
anodic with respect to metals closer to the bottom of the list.

Copper is number 55 in the list, and silver is number 90. This means
the copper will act as the anode and silver as the cathode. This
means only copper ions will go into solution, and not the silver.

We know that copper and silver electroysis has been used for decades
to deposit the ions in swimming pools and jacuzzis. Here is one
example:

http://www.almostheaven.net/aho/ionizers.htm

Instead of a dc voltage that is generated from the contact
potential, these systems apply AC to the electrodes. This means the
silver and copper will alternate and become the anode on each half
cycle, so both ions will enter the solution.

Unfortunately, they do not tell you that the silver ions will
quickly combine with various substances in the water and form
insoluble compounds. For example, silver hydroxide, silver chloride,
and silver sulphide are highly insoluble and have very little
antibacterial activity. On the other hand, the copper compounds are
mostly soluble, which leaves the copper ions in solution and
available to kill bacteria.

This means we really do not need the silver in the process. It is
very expensive and does not contribute to the killing power, which
is due to the copper ions.

So all we need is a subsitute for the silver to act as the cathode
in the electrolysis process. After a bit of searching, we quickly find that
most varieties of stainless steel should work as well as silver, and
would be much less expensive. For example, see the "Galvanic Series
Of Metals And Alloys", at

http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/04-html/4-1.html

This leads directly to the bacteria killer for wells. There is such
a huge variation in well size and depth that it is not feasible to
try to make a commercial product. So there is no web site describing
it, and no place to buy the assembly.

However, it is so simple that one approach would be to take an
ordinary stainless steel shower curtain rod which is available at
most hardware stores, and simply wrap copper tubing loosley around
it. Most hardware stores have a small tool area where they could
drill a hole in the end to clamp the copper to the rod, and attach a
nylon rope to lower the assembly into the well.

If the hardware store cannot do this, maybe a neighbor with an
electric drill might be able to help. Drilling stainless steel can
be tricky since the steel will work harden and no drill will be able
to penetrate it. I use cobalt drills and find them much more
effective than any other drill. They go through stainless like a hot
knife through butter, but you still have to apply cutting fluid and
apply the proper pressure for best results.

As far as the copper level in the water, it depends on the size of
the assembly and the amount of water in your individual well. The
amount of copper ion needed to kill bacteria is very low.

We need a trace amount of copper in our diet anyway. Here is some
information on how it is used in the body and what happens when we
get too much or too little:

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

However, the natural electrolysis process in this system is very
unlikely to produce enough copper to present any health problems.

People with copper plumbing obtain a portion of their daily needs
from the copper dissolved from the pipes. This is far below the
level that is needed to develop copper toxicity.

This system will likely produce a similar amount of copper, and give
similar results.

So that's the story on the Pat and Mike Well Bacteria Killer. We
hereby donate the technology to the Public Domain, and anyone can
use it without fear of having to pay for licensing.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett
 

rickr

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Hi There,

I am very desperate and quite curious about your stainless rod and copper bacteria elimination solution. My perfect well since 1991 became contaminated with what I believe is iron bacteria as a result of me changing my own pump. I put the 190' of hose and pump on the damp mossy ground to change the dead pump. A month later the water started smelling and tasting swampy and has gotten rpogressivlty worse since. I do not want to be the DIY idiot that further ruins my once perfect well and water. I am told to shock the well and it may or may not take care of the problem. Even them I'm told its a short term solution and I have effectively ruined the well and will have to shock it continually forever more. Your solution however has given me hope. I would be forever grateful for a little more info. Will this work with a well that is alrewady contaminated and smelly, like mine? How far down in the water do I need to put the rod and will the 12 feet work in a 195' well with an average water yield of 40 GPM? Should I first shock the well the try the rod? Does it really work? Its hard to believe you and your friend have come up with this solution and have not tried to capatalize on it like the majority of folks would do...I'm like you however, help where I can! It makes sense as when I had algae growing on my roof, I was told to use copper strips at the peak, which I did and over the period of a summer woth of rain, the algae disappered. Any other help you would care to offer would be most appreciated. Your designer friend Mike does not accept PM's. Cant say as though I blame him. Thanks again, Rick
 

Ballvalve

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Shower rods are chrome plated steel, chrome is very hard to drill, SS not so much. Copper fittings are still thrown into wine barrels with hydrogen sulphide smell. And it works. I do it.

Lots of 'fake' SS [low level alloy] on the market from our saboteurs in Asia. Notice the rust on your grill. Buy your SS at a metal supply shop
 

4me2see

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Hi There,

I am very desperate and quite curious about your stainless rod and copper bacteria elimination solution. My perfect well since 1991 became contaminated with what I believe is iron bacteria as a result of me changing my own pump. I put the 190' of hose and pump on the damp mossy ground to change the dead pump. A month later the water started smelling and tasting swampy and has gotten rpogressivlty worse since. I do not want to be the DIY idiot that further ruins my once perfect well and water. I am told to shock the well and it may or may not take care of the problem. Even them I'm told its a short term solution and I have effectively ruined the well and will have to shock it continually forever more. Your solution however has given me hope. I would be forever grateful for a little more info. Will this work with a well that is alrewady contaminated and smelly, like mine? How far down in the water do I need to put the rod and will the 12 feet work in a 195' well with an average water yield of 40 GPM? Should I first shock the well the try the rod? Does it really work? Its hard to believe you and your friend have come up with this solution and have not tried to capatalize on it like the majority of folks would do...I'm like you however, help where I can! It makes sense as when I had algae growing on my roof, I was told to use copper strips at the peak, which I did and over the period of a summer woth of rain, the algae disappered. Any other help you would care to offer would be most appreciated. Your designer friend Mike does not accept PM's. Cant say as though I blame him. Thanks again, Rick

It would depend on wow much water you use. You may need more. amount of water or depth does not matter. I found 1" SS tubing in 6 foot lengths on ****. Diameter is not real important as long as it fits in the well. Put it below the low water line so it is always under water. Let it in there forever No need to shock the well. But give it some time. Please let me know how you make out. Pat- I lost Mike Monett. He don't have an email anymore. Good luck.
 

Kelvin Rempel

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Well, I put this together tonight. I used a 6 foot section of 304 stainless tubing wrapped with 1/4 inch copper tubing, I’ll see how it works. I’ve had heavy iron bacteria content for the last 15 years. I’ll have my water tested in the spring.
 

Pam_R

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Shower rods are chrome plated steel, chrome is very hard to drill, SS not so much. Copper fittings are still thrown into wine barrels with hydrogen sulphide smell. And it works. I do it.

Lots of 'fake' SS [low level alloy] on the market from our saboteurs in Asia. Notice the rust on your grill. Buy your SS at a metal supply shop
Take 6 to 12 feet of 1 inch stainless tubing or pipe. Wrap its length with 1/4 inch soft copper tubing !/4 inch apart tightly to the stainless steel. Tie it secerley with heavy copper wire.. In water the copper will have a electrolysis to the stainless. That will kill bacteria. I have been using this for over 5 years. It was developed by me and a smart friend of mine from Canada. Mr. Mike Monett. We call it the Pat and Mike bacteria Killer. You may leave it in your well forever. No more flashing the well.


Wow! So glad I found this thread. I have been looking for an affordable solution for years. Don't know how I have missed this since I have searched the Web many times. Have also talked to professionals and they want $4-5k for systems to treat bacterial rust. Shocking the well doesn't seem to help for long.

I do have some questions. Don't know much about wells.

How do I know if the pipe is under water or not? Even if I am able to shine a light down and see when I drop it in, doesn't the water table fluctuate?

If it is going to stay in the well forever, is there a reason to tie a rope on it? Can in not be just dropped in?

If the copper is imparting molecules into the water, will it not dissipate eventually and need to be replaced? The process seems similar (but on a larger scale) to the process of making silver colloidal water. I make it at home, for its antibacterial properties, using silver rods and electricity to disperse nano particles into the water. But eventually, I will need to replace my silver rods. Should this not be a concern with the copper?

Thanks so much for any help on this. Hope to hear how it works for you, and I will post my results, also.

Pam
 

Reach4

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Thanks so much for any help on this. Hope to hear how it works for you, and I will post my results, also.
Time for skeptical Pam to step up.
 
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Pam_R

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Time for skeptical Pam to step up.

Lol. Who's skeptical? The Romans used to put silver coins in their water to prevent infection when cleaning wounds on the battlefield. The Phoenicians used silver pitchers to keep their water fresh. I use silver colloidal water (water with nano particles of silver suspended in it) for internal and external use, as well as for a household disinfectant. But silver is expensive to use for larger amounts of water than the quart jars that I make, and, as has been pointed out, chemical reactions to other elements can make it ineffective, if not dangerous . In fact, I have to use distilled water that is so pure that I have to be picky about what brand I buy. Home distilled is not pure enough, neither is WalMart brand, but the kind K-Mart sells is. Go figure. Obviously, that solution will not work for a well.

Copper has similar antibacterial properties. You can buy solar powered devices that float in your swimming pool and add copper to the water instead of chemicals to keep it bacteria free. So, I am happy to try this solution that allows me to add copper to the well and does not require an electric appliance to do so. But a little more specifics on the "how to" details to be helpful. Then, in a few months I will be delighted to "step up" and report back on the results. :)
 

Reach4

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Lol. Who's skeptical? The Romans used to put silver coins in their water to prevent infection when cleaning wounds on the battlefield.
Me.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/scienceshot-did-lead-poisoning-bring-down-ancient-rome

So, I am happy to try this solution that allows me to add copper to the well and does not require an electric appliance to do so.
To be cautious, I suggest you have your kids drink bottled water during your experiment.

How will you measure the results of your experiment? It seems probable that the silver is harmless, but it also seems probable to me that it will be ineffective. But how would you know? You may be aware of experimenter unconscious bias effects. Those who want bacteria-free water would be better served with a UV sterilizer. I don't use one, myself.

Ideally your silver stuff could keep down IRB and SRB (iron and sulfur bacteria) inside the well. I really doubt that. I don't reject the possibility.
 
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Reach4

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If your next water test is unchanged, I would sanitize with more conventional methods.
 
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NutmegCT

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It would be *really* helpful if you would do a bacteria (coliform, E. coli) test on your water without using your copper/stainless system. Then do another test after using your system. It may be killing iron bacteria, but we don't know if it's actually killing the bacteria which cause illness.

Thanks.
Tom M.
 
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