Air Volume Control

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lzenglish

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I probably have installed 4 new Air Volume Controls in the past 20 years on my Submersable well tank. 3 of the 4 were different made by different manufacturers. I have alwas been confused as how to set one up, with my particular application, to get the maximum draw down from my well tank. I know that the inital settings were 25 psi, and adjustable to higher pressure.
Does anyone know how to dial one in? I was thinking of installing a sight glass on my tank, to see the effect of making an adjustment, any thoughts?

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Waterwelldude

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If you are talking about the one that screws in the side of the tank, it will only let air out "if" the water is below the float.
They do come set at 25psi. That means if the water is below the float, it takes 25psi to push air out the release hole.

Raising or lowering the psi on the air release will not make that much difference in the amount of water in the tank. If the psi is set to high, it will not release any air, and will not work properly. That will cause you to get air in the lines.

The water level in the tank should be around 14 to 16 inches from the top on the tank you are using now.


Travis
 

lzenglish

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Thanks for your reply. Is that why allot of the new Controls are preset at 25 psi, and not adjustable? It seems to me that when you have a Galvanized Tank Setup, you cannot assume that it will work for ever after the initial setup, but requires "Periodic" Tweeking to operate correctly, would you agree?

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Valveman

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Air charge systems should not need tweeking but, they do need maintenance. Four parts must continue to work properly for the air charge to work. The AVC just lets excess air out. The above ground check valve holds pressure off the line so the bleeder can open. The Schrader valve on this check valve must work to allow air into the system. Then the bleeder orifice down in the well must open on low pressure to let air in, and close on high pressure to keep water in.

If any one of these four parts fail, the air charge won't work properly. That is why most people use bladder tanks, they do away with these four moving and wearable parts, that continue to need maintenance or else.
 

lzenglish

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Air charge systems should not need tweeking but, they do need maintenance. Four parts must continue to work properly for the air charge to work. The AVC just lets excess air out. The above ground check valve holds pressure off the line so the bleeder can open. The Schrader valve on this check valve must work to allow air into the system. Then the bleeder orifice down in the well must open on low pressure to let air in, and close on high pressure to keep water in.

If any one of these four parts fail, the air charge won't work properly. That is why most people use bladder tanks, they do away with these four moving and wearable parts, that continue to need maintenance or else.

Thanks for your Input. I have thought avout going to a bladder tank, and the only reason I don't,(at this point), is the expense of pulling the down pipe to remove the bleeder valves. I'm in the process of fabricating an "A" frame base over my well so I can pull the down pipe myself. I need this anyway, for the winter months when it would be imposible for a well drillers rig to access my well, due to the soft soil.
 

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If the bleeder is still working properly, all you have to do is remove the above ground check valve and the bleeder can't open. Then you don't have to pull up the drop pipe to switch to a bladder tank.

The more air in a galv tank, the more drawdown. You just can't have so much air that air starts coming out the discharge pipe. The most drawdown available would be when the air level is just above the discharge pipe at pump start up pressure.
 

lzenglish

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Thanks for the Info. When you say above ground check valve, are you refering to the "snifter valve", or the "Control Check valve"? If I remove the Control check valve (the large brass valve with two ports correct?), wont the water from the tank drain back to the pump?
 

Waterwelldude

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If the bleeder is still working properly, all you have to do is remove the above ground check valve and the bleeder can't open. Then you don't have to pull up the drop pipe to switch to a bladder tank.
QUOTE]


If the drop pipe has the rubber type bleeder in it, it will still let a small amount of water out. Not much, but it will let some out. If the above ground check valve is removed, the water will drain out the bleeder, if its the rubber type.

If he does go with a bladder tank, it is best to remove the down hole bleeder.

Travis
 

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Yes we are talking about removing the "control check valve". About 50% of the time this is all that needs to be done. But if the bleeder is leaking or a rubber one like Travis says, it will need to be removed for a bladder tank.
 

Mike77

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Air charge systems should not need tweeking but, they do need maintenance. Four parts must continue to work properly for the air charge to work. The AVC just lets excess air out. The above ground check valve holds pressure off the line so the bleeder can open. The Schrader valve on this check valve must work to allow air into the system. Then the bleeder orifice down in the well must open on low pressure to let air in, and close on high pressure to keep water in.

If any one of these four parts fail, the air charge won't work properly. That is why most people use bladder tanks, they do away with these four moving and wearable parts, that continue to need maintenance or else.

Valveman, I don't think my 200ft deep well has a bleeder valve. I was there when driller installed my well pump. He had closed the well cap then he said he forgot to drill a hole in the drop pipe so he pulled it out about 12 feet and drilled a hole in the drop pipe he said so the drop pipe would take in air for my pressure tank without a diaphragm.

Can a hole drilled through the drop pipe be used instead of a "bleeder orifice down in the well"? Would this hole through the drop pipe be called a weep hole?

Valveman, where is this "bleeder orifice down in the well" you posted about? If I change to a pressure tank with a diaphragm do I need to eliminate it?

My pressure tank stays water logged even though I drain it.We have a discussion about it here:
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....or-diaphragm-pressure-tank.80416/#post-581936
 
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Valveman

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Drilling a hole in the pipe will work. It is just a cheap way to make a bleeder. But unfortunately it bleeds all the time, and can even drill a hole in your casing, unlike a real bleeder orifice. The check valve and schrader at the tank have to be working perfectly before the bleeder can function.
 

Mike77

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Thanks for the information Cary, but my system has a pressure tank without a diaphragm and I don't see a check valve anywhere.
 
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Reach4

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Thanks for the information Cary, but I my system has a pressure tank without a diaphragm and I don't see a check valve anywhere.
That brass/bronze thing with your pressure switch downstream and the snifter valve upstream is the "tapped" check valve.
tank-and-well.jpg
 
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Valveman

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You must have a check valve and schrader to make the drilled hole draw in air. The check valve could be in the well, but usually not. It could also have a check valve and two drilled holes in the well.
 

Mike77

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So the brass piece with the pressure switch and the snifter valve also has a check valve in it.
Thank you very much Reach4
.
 

Valveman

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That schrader should draw in air every time the pump stops. If not the check valve is bad or the hole in the pipe is clogged. If it is not getting enough air, the drilled hole should be farther down.
 

Mike77

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I better pull the pipe and look at the weep hole when I can get some helpers. How much do you suppose 200 feet of pvc with water and the 1 hp pump weighs?
 

Reach4

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I better pull the pipe and look at the weep hole when I can get some helpers. How much do you suppose 200 feet of pvc with water and the 1 hp pump weighs?

167 plus the weight of the pump, presuming 1 inch schedule 80 and 3 #10 wires. However with a 200 ft well, the pump will be maybe 20 ft off of the bottom... so less than 167 probably. I messaged you a spreadsheet.

Cary, how would you plug the drilled hole? Sheet metal screw? I have been discussing some more complex ways with Mike.
 
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Mike77

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I guess I won't have to pull the drop pipe. I think I found the reason for the water logging. I drained the pressure tank and refilled it. Then I sprayed soapy water all over it. There are bubbles coming out of the threaded plug on the very top of the tank. So I am going to remove it and put teflon paste on the threads and put it back in.

Then to see if the tank is taking in air like it should and to get a reference point; with the pressure up to 55 psi and the contact points open I ran a hose in to a bucket. I opened the valve and watched as the pressure went down to 25 psi and the contact points closed I had about 9 gallons of water that had run in the bucket instead of the 1.5 gallons I was getting when it was water logged.
 
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Mike77

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Now about an air control valve is this right? When the water rises and lifts the float the air control valve quits letting air out so if I move the air control valve to the lower fitting I should get more air in the tank?
 
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