Re: Thanks Greg...a little more advice?
Posted by Greg on January 02, 2004 at 08:28:27:
In response to Re: Thanks Greg...a little more advice?
Tom,

I think I have a good, temporary solution for you.

Regarding your statement, "To install a proper wye into that drain line, I am assuming that will involve coming straight down from the closet flange a short distance and then kicking off on a 45 and tieing in a little further downstream? That will be a rough trick perhaps with that existing wye...I might be misunderstanding you there." Your area might be a little tight for that, but without seeing this first hand, it's hard to be certain. If you have a HomeDepot or Lowes nearby, I'd look at their wye supply and maybe even buy a couple you think might fit (you can easily return them) and hold them up there while eyeballing it to see if it might reach.

If you would rather not do that, then to buy yourself some time (and until you decide you're ready to and can afford to better address this)and repair this at least temporarily, my recommendation is to cut the pipe to the left of your leaky joint, leaving 3" connected to the left wye. The section of pipe from your leaky joint to the left wye joint is approx. 6 inches, right? Then, cut out the leaky joint pipe flush with the hub (coupling) and carefully remove any inserted pipe which, based on your leak, shouldn't require much.

After that, get a 3" flex coupling, slide it over the left pipe, prime and glue in a pipe stub to the right coupling (the old leak joint). Slide the flex coupling halfway and tighten. Because this is a joint I'd want to be able to access/tighten/keep and eye on, I would, when resintalling the drywall, frame in a false return duct by face mounting an return air grill. This would then make this joint serviceable by allowing you to inspect this joint using a flashlight and even tighten the bands or replace the coupling should it become necessary. Which coupling type? Well, the metal banded rubber is best, but you may have to go with an all-rubber design if the metal banded one doesn't slide enough to allow insertion of the new right-side pipe stub. Hope this all makes sense. Let me know.

Greg


: Towards the right or upstream to the initial - - The first item in the line is a toilet, then a separate shower, 2 vanity sink, a garden tub (why does everyone have one and no one uses it?)

: The wye that is immediately following the leaky sanitary T comes from another double vanity.

: I do not know how old some of the piping in this area is. 1987 house. I do know that the first owners of this house (I'm 3rd) had major issues in way of the garden tub...can tell because of bad ceiling patch directly underneath the tub area.

: I have not yet started making my hole on the other side of the cabinets that you see in the first picture. Those cabinets are suspended from a hollow drywall box from the ceiling. The drain works along the back wall and crosses that hollow drywalled box at right angles. That is why I have to cut on the other side and have a slightly larger insert if that is the way I probably will have to.

: To install a proper wye into that drain line, I am assuming that will involve coming straight down from the closet flange a short distance and then kicking off on a 45 and tieing in a little further downstream? That will be a rough trick perhaps with that existing wye...I might be misunderstanding you there.

: I've updated with another pic looking right and have posted our exchange underneath it for easy reference and appreciate your help in ways I cannot explain.

: Tom
: http://home.earthlink.net/~unlimitedoceans/id2.html

: : Tom,

: : Good job getting some pix to your website; I can see where your one toilet drops into a sanitary T. I'm guessing some of this is newer than the original pvc, yes? I say that based on what looks like older pvc towards the back. Not real important, but it makes me wonder why the joint failed. I'm guessing whoever glued it didn't let it set and it pushed itself out before setting. Whenever I glue pvc joints, I now wait 30 real seconds (excessive, but...) before releasing because I've had joints start walking apart.

: : The sanitary T related to your leaking joint is against code; it should have been a wye, although, that is not the reason for it failing, as your suspicion seems correct. If it were mine, I'd want that changed to a wye eventually.

: : 1. Upstream from here is your other toilet?
: : 2. If that is correct, is there anything connected upstream besides the other toilet? If not, and it is a straight run to your other closet flange, then your predicament shouldn't be too bad.

: : Without seeing your layout in person, cutting out your present T and installing a wye to the left of it would be ideal.
: : 3. The coupling to the left of your leak/arrow- Is that your wye, or 45 as you called it? And that keeps going left?
: : 4. A photo looking right could help, since left doesn't sound like it has much to offer based on your previous descriptions.

: : Gotta run for now, but I'll check your post early tomorrow morning. I see a glimmer of hope, but dealing with plumbing always packs surprises. Talk to you soon...Greg
: :

:
: : : : Greg,

: : : First attempt did not work, I posted them to a web page I just made at http://home.earthlink.net/~unlimitedoceans/id2.html

: : : It's not fancy, but it conveys the problem I think.

: : :
: : : : Thanks for your patience. I checked that website and will see if anyone local carries..not according to their website. I would MUCH prefer to have a pro do it but just bought an engagement ring last week....SO, things are tight at best.
: : : : I've tried to attach a picture to this post and we will see if it works.

: : : : Tom,

: : : : : If I correctly envision what you describe, you need to seriously consider a licensed plumber in your area; that is your best, permanent solution. If you are unable to do that financially at this time, I would try a repair using something like plastaid (http://www.plast-aid.com/). I can't verify that it works, only that it's an option to try at least temporarily.

: : : : : When I mentioned a picture, I meant uploading a picture to Terry's website, which can be done. Greg

: : : : : : Greg, I have two bathrooms on second floor. 3" drain line starts at a toilet passes a shower tub and 2 sinks and into the other bathroom. Where the drain line picks up the 2nd bathroom closet flange is the leak. The leak is in the T where the closet flange drops into the drain line. It appears that not enough pipe was seated inside the T. The problem is there is a 45 into the drain line about 10" past the culprit for the sinks which is going to make for some fancy coupling on that side. I'd rather not tear out the 45 and it's run from the sinks because of the way the flooring and beams are...nightmare.

: : : : : : I have to insert a few feet because of a beam and cabinets attached to the ceiling on the other side of the bad joint. My worry is how to make GOOD couplings on either side of the new insert without trying to force old piping to catch the overlap you need to seat a typical coupling. That is what attracted me to the flexible coupling idea.

: : : : : : I hope that gives you a clearer picture...it's hard for me to put it into words and my art work is considerably worse.

: : : : : : REALLY appreciate your patience and continued help.

: : : : : : : Tom,

: : : : : : : CPVC you can flex enough to gain some clearance, but 3" pipe, unlikely.
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : I don't have a clear picture of what you've got, but you mention a drop from a closet flange. If the piece you're looking to replace connects (unbranched) to your toilet, I'd pull the toilet, then repipe from your leak to a new closet flange.

: : : : : : : If this doesn't help or won't work, try posting a picture of your dilemma so we can get a better look. We'll be watching...
: : : : : : : Greg

: : : : : : : : Can you offer any other way to splice into an existing albeit old 3" line? Should I risk making existing piping bend for that moment that I need to make up that slack?

: : : : : : : : Thanks so much for your help,

: : : : : : : : Tom

: : : : : : : : : Troubled Tom,

: : : : : : : : : I've used the rubber couplings of which you speak, although my rule is only to use them where access is always available (although sometimes difficult) for servicing/inspection. Personally, I just don't trust them completely.

: : : : : : : : : On the flip side of that, though, I'm currently witnessing large commercial buildings go up that use hords of these couplings (mission style - with the metal bands around the rubber inner). Some codes allow similar couplings to be buried. But, if you don't mind running the risk of redoing some drywall down the road, it could work well enough, they're just not as permanent or "comforting" as a glued joint, which is always preferred. Good Luck. Greg

: : : : : : : : : : I posted a few days before Christmas about a leaking joint that wiped out some drywall in my kitchen before a party. You suggested (as I figured I needed to) that I replace. Here's my question:
: : : : : : : : : : How good are flexible drain couplings? I am going to have to insert about 6 linear feet into my second floor drain line including a drop from a closet flange. To make a solid connection on each end will require me to couple one end into existing 3" pipe near another fitting and work my way to the other. To do it right, I will have about a 1" overlap to make sure it makes up solid if I use a typical coupling. You and I both know I can't bend 3" pipe enough to make that up. I also am sure that if I try to move existing plumbing that 1" to get it right, something will give...I just feel it. I found a rubber "flexible coupling" made by PlumbQwik I think that promises permanent coupling. Is this the answer or do you have a better suggestion?

: : : : : : : : : : Thanks in advance!

: : : : : : : : : : Tom Payne




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