Polybutylene pipe - questions on "PB2110M"

Hi,

I have a leak in my wall that has resulted in the subfloor rotting. While repairing it, I noticed that the pipe was polybutylene, and a neighbor mentioned the class action lawsuits involving this pipe. I looked into it, and found that the pipe in my house is marked "PB2110M". Pipes marked in this way are excluded from the lawsuits. However, I've been unable to find out why this is. So these are my questions:
1) Does anyone know why PB2110M pipe is excluded?
2) What is the difference between PB2110M and other PB pipe?
3) Is PB2110M pipe "safe"?
4) I've read of cases where having polybutylene pipe in a house has killed a real estate deal, or resulted in an insurance claim being denied. If PB2110M is not faulty, how would I convince a buyer/insurance company that I don't have the bad polybutylene pipe?
5) All the pipe I could access in the crawlspace was PB2110M. Is it likely that all the polybutylene pipe in my house is PB2110M, or am I likely to have the "bad" stuff mixed in>

Thanks in advance,

Paddy

I haved been searching around and cannot find WHY 2110M is excluded. PB2110 is the type that may be covered. There have been 2 large legal actions: the COX case vs Shell, and the SPENCER case vs Dupont. I don't have specifics about whether either of these 2 cases are still active, but time is of the essence to say the least.

The early failures involved the fitting systems used. Later, it was discovered that the PB itself was affected in the long term (10 to 15 years) by the clorine levels in city water, especiall in the hot lines. It is very common to have pinholes develop very close to the water heater.

As far as I know, you cannot assume that ANY PB is OK for the long term. SO, persue legal avenues if they are available, but plan to get repiped sooner rather than later.

Pb2110m

Thanks. I read up on the cases - the Spencer case seems to apply to plastic fittings only and reimburses 10% of the cost, the Cox case covers the pipe and the fittings (your are eligible even if you have copper fittings, as I do) and reimburses 100% of the cost (at least in theory - I've read about people having trouble getting satisfaction with both cases).

The Cox case would be the one I would apply to, however it clearly states that PB2110M is not covered and that is what I have. A Google search only turned up two hits - both saying that it is not what is covered. I'd really like to know - it's not as if I can rest easy because I have the "wrong" serial number.

I'll probably end up contacting CPRC (Cox case administrators) anyway (I'm still within the time frame - my house is less than 13 years old, and the deadline for any claims is 2009), but I'd like independent input on this.

Pb2110m

I called CPRC, and was told that PB2110M is not covered because it doesn't contain the Shell resin that was the subject of the Cox class-action lawsuit. The resin for these pipes was manufactured by Mitsui. The lady told me that they get a number of claims from people with PB2110M (which they deny) and that PB2110M is also problematic - it just doesn't include the Shell resin. Someone tried to start a class-action lawsuit against Vanguard Pipe in order to cover PB2110M, but it failed as far as I can tell.

Thanks very much for sharing your research with us. I had suspected that the answer might be a different manufacturer, but could not pin that down.

It's always about the deep pockets, and Shell is about as deep as it gets, so they bore the brunt of the suits.

its easier to get blood from a turnip

they have made it nearly imposible to actually
get money out of anyone for these situations....

especially if it is an emergency.....

you simply cannot wait when you have leaking pipes.....

and you got to go through so many hoops and red tape

that its almost impossibe


if you forget to fill out anything on the forms or make any
kind of errors on the forms they
send you , you literally have to start alll over from scratch...

and they dont let you know you made a mistake either
the whole application just gets shit-canned

you got to literally call every few weeks to see how things
are progressig....if you dont and its been rejected,

it could be months and months before you ever find out why...
then you start all over.


the average time frame to get any sort
of reimbursment is about a year, and that is if you
have not made any errors in filling out all the forms...


no normal human being has the patience to go through
that much trouble especially when they need something done
today... ,

and they know it ---and they have set it up this way...

aint those lawers smart fellas??

Pb2110m

Wow... I'm really looking forward to dealing with this now

I have a plumber to fix the immediate leak, and I'm going to talk to him about a repipe. It won't be pretty.

Paddy

pb re pipe

got the same thing going on here in two homes
at the same time.... they are identical homes on
opposite sides of town.....

both were build abouit 1983 and both sprung leaks
on the cold side

sometihing youi might want to check into is
wether the main water line comming into the
home is copper or poly

if it is poly then its probably a goood idea to get
a price on changeing it out too while you are at it


these people in town here arent really happy,
one fellow looked in-to that law suit afffair and told me
today that it has all but expired...

so they are going to probably be shelling out about
3500 for the plumbing inside the house and probably
another 1500 to get a new water service brought into
the home from the water meter.


it keeps me busy. though I dont care to
slosh around in the hot attics this time of year.

I guess its better than
working on toilets or cleaning drains

Replacement

I got a quote from "Plumbing Express" - $5270 to replace everything with CPVC pipe, and to do the "clean up" work (drywall, painting) afterwards. The pipes will also be larger (3/4" vs 1/2") and they will reroute it in some places to improve the hot water supply to the bathrooms. I did get another quote from another plumber - $600/fixture, with no drywall/painting included. The Plumbing Express deal seems a better one (we have >10 fixtures). Does anyone have any experience with this outfit (they seem fairly large)? I remember reading somewhere to be skeptical about their website because "they only tell you what they want you to know", but I'm not sure what this meant (I think it may have been regarding the class action lawsuits).

Paddy

what town + state

just wondering what area of the counrty you are located in

we just a small home today for about 4000...

2 bath back to back new Delta shower and tub faucets...

laundry kitchen 2 outside hose bibs.

seems like either I am too cheap, or those fellows are

extremely expensive....

perhaps another estimate or two would be a good
idea
or I ned to raise my prices about 1600 dolars.

Pricing

Mark,

I'm in the Raleigh-NC area. The cost of living is quite high here (not compared to major cities like Boston and San Francisco, but compared to other places I've lived - Mid-West, Texas). $4000 sounds good - did that include the drywall/painting? I'll probably get another estimate, but I have a sinking feeling...

Paddy

Seeping in Alabama

I have QEST PB2110 - 4137 (no M) grey plastic pipes and corroded leaking fittings, they look like they are copper. Are the fittings covered under any of the class action suits? We have our own well and someone told me that the iron in the well water corroded my fittings...? Can this be true? The house was built in 1994. We found that several fittings close to the hot water heater were seeping, will my whole house begin to seep?

Thanks,
Diane

Iron can not corrode copper or brass. Your fittings will probably be brass.

I am by no ways advocating anything but.....




3 claims on your insurance company and little persuasion might convince them to replace it all for you. I know of a family that went through the same thing. Only thing left is main line going into home from street. Ins paid for new piping, drywall, painting and cleanup of the home after 3rd water restoration claim.

pb pipe

As far as the class action suit is concerned, it only covered pipes installed up till 7/31/95, and even then only for 12 years, (although somewhere in the paperwork I seem to remember the number 14 years also), so the only installations still covered at this time are those between 4/4/1994 and 7/31/95, although it is possible to back it up to 4/4/1993.