Redwood
Master Plumber
I think he already is...
Zeta Rod residental water treatment
- Thread starter blacktop37
- Start date
I think he already is...
Gary Slusser
That's all folks!
- Messages
- 6,921
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 38
- Location
- Wherever I park the motorhome.
- Website
- www.qualitywaterassociates.com
Scale in a water heater or pipes is a serious problem. The only way to be sure scaling is prevented and removed if it has formed, is with an ion exchange water softener that is correctly sized for the flow rate of the building.
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I will make an honest an open proposal to Mr. Roma and his product. I have the facilities to thouroughly test your product. If you will provide me with the Zeta Rod product and a list of the parameters that the product operates within, along with a list of the claims you make for the product, I and my class will put your product to the test and report our un-biased results to the forums.
If you truely believe in your product than please contact me either openly on this thread or you can P.M, me anytime.
If you truely believe in your product than please contact me either openly on this thread or you can P.M, me anytime.
Redwood
Master Plumber
UH-Oh!
Don't do it!
You may not want to hear what you already know....
Don't do it!
You may not want to hear what you already know....
Changing charged particles not softening
Just to help this move along I wanted to mention that the product does not remove anything from the water. As the water comes across the "charged" field, it's charge is "changed".
I'm not familiar with the Zeta Rod specificially, but this process does work in a controlled lab. The lack of a "charge" makes the water harder to stick (acting like a softner). Although, I'm skeptical about the ability of the process when gallons of water are moving by every minute.
Good luck on your choice, there are a few other companies out there.
Just to help this move along I wanted to mention that the product does not remove anything from the water. As the water comes across the "charged" field, it's charge is "changed".
I'm not familiar with the Zeta Rod specificially, but this process does work in a controlled lab. The lack of a "charge" makes the water harder to stick (acting like a softner). Although, I'm skeptical about the ability of the process when gallons of water are moving by every minute.
Good luck on your choice, there are a few other companies out there.
I have no problem with electrically charging water. The problem is that softeners remove those chemicals that cause the water to be hard. The charging process does not remove them, they still flow out the faucet. If I do a hardness test on the charged water will it read any different than if it was not charged?
The other problem I have is with the warranty which basically says there is no warranty.
The other problem I have is with the warranty which basically says there is no warranty.
Redwood
Master Plumber
Don't hold your breath...
Could be fatal...
These purveyors of Voodoo Water Softeners just keep popping up like bad pennies...
Here's another one that showed up and trie to clear his name... never went anywhere
Could be fatal...
These purveyors of Voodoo Water Softeners just keep popping up like bad pennies...
Here's another one that showed up and trie to clear his name... never went anywhere
Last edited:
Alternety
Like an engineer
I am not defending this product, but there is significant merit and utility for this sort of result when you are talking about "process" water in an industrial environment (or an open loop ground coupled heat pump). The scaling problem would be fixed and the water is discarded so no one cares about the end state of dissolved solids. The success would depend on the lifetime of the effect in the pipe.
I am a bit confused after reading the residential FAQ. They are talking about charging colloidal particles that pre-exist. But the things that are the target are dissolved solids. Are the "particles" the individual compound molecules? They also seem to claim that even with no flow, water upstream of the devide will be processed. That one is a little tough for my head.
More musings on what if.
If the lifetime of the effect is sufficient it may also be useful in circulating water heat exchangers. Other uses would depend on what happens when water evaporates during part of the process. Are the resultant solids such that they simply rinse away? It probably would not be a benefit for open loop boilers because the particles would accumulate as the steam is produced (unless they were very small maybe).
As described in this thread, it would not seem to be particularly useful in the average residential or multi-user water system. If we knew the size of the resultant particles we could evaluate the possibility of filtering the particles, thus removing the dissolved solids. It would also be important to know exactly what elements or compounds will be changed from dissolved to solid. Or if that indeed happens. It really does not seem that it precipitates/aggregates anything. Rather the opposite. They claim that the residue is water "soluble" and it can be rinsed from affected surfaces. That is the same end result you want from softened water in terms of collecting on fictures, tubs, shower, etc. A water softener does not actually eliminate the compounds that form a film; if changes the compound from one based on calcium (insoluble) to one based on sodium which is soluble.
If there is a way that it could precipitate all arsenic compounds and create particles greater than about 0.1 - 1 micron, you would have a much simplified way to get arsenic out. If it charged the arsenic compounds such that they could be removed by an electric field later in the process; that would be real good.
It would be interesting to hear a response from the vendor on these points.
I suffer from the problem, but we really have to beware of absolute beliefs in what can not be true (e.g., the world is flat, you can't be killed by living near that rock [radon et all], man can not survive the stresses of traveling more than 10 MPH, can't fly, for damn sure no one can walk on the moon, no one could possibly elect him to a second term, ad infinitum).
If you look at the diagram of the system, it is very similar to the system discussed in the wells forum a while back. That one was being pitched to swimming pools.
I am a bit confused after reading the residential FAQ. They are talking about charging colloidal particles that pre-exist. But the things that are the target are dissolved solids. Are the "particles" the individual compound molecules? They also seem to claim that even with no flow, water upstream of the devide will be processed. That one is a little tough for my head.
More musings on what if.
If the lifetime of the effect is sufficient it may also be useful in circulating water heat exchangers. Other uses would depend on what happens when water evaporates during part of the process. Are the resultant solids such that they simply rinse away? It probably would not be a benefit for open loop boilers because the particles would accumulate as the steam is produced (unless they were very small maybe).
As described in this thread, it would not seem to be particularly useful in the average residential or multi-user water system. If we knew the size of the resultant particles we could evaluate the possibility of filtering the particles, thus removing the dissolved solids. It would also be important to know exactly what elements or compounds will be changed from dissolved to solid. Or if that indeed happens. It really does not seem that it precipitates/aggregates anything. Rather the opposite. They claim that the residue is water "soluble" and it can be rinsed from affected surfaces. That is the same end result you want from softened water in terms of collecting on fictures, tubs, shower, etc. A water softener does not actually eliminate the compounds that form a film; if changes the compound from one based on calcium (insoluble) to one based on sodium which is soluble.
If there is a way that it could precipitate all arsenic compounds and create particles greater than about 0.1 - 1 micron, you would have a much simplified way to get arsenic out. If it charged the arsenic compounds such that they could be removed by an electric field later in the process; that would be real good.
It would be interesting to hear a response from the vendor on these points.
I suffer from the problem, but we really have to beware of absolute beliefs in what can not be true (e.g., the world is flat, you can't be killed by living near that rock [radon et all], man can not survive the stresses of traveling more than 10 MPH, can't fly, for damn sure no one can walk on the moon, no one could possibly elect him to a second term, ad infinitum).
If you look at the diagram of the system, it is very similar to the system discussed in the wells forum a while back. That one was being pitched to swimming pools.
Redwood
Master Plumber
This one would be fine in a recirculating system like a cooling tower where they are looking at anti scale devices but they make the big name claims of who is using it, and market it to homeowners to treat their potable water.
Clearly a misapplication with them cashing in.
Clearly a misapplication with them cashing in.
Bill Arden
Computer Programmer
There might be a effect, but I don't see any verifiable and testable real world experiments.
You would also have to separate the different types of deposits.
1. Cold water deposits. This is very rare and occur in all the pipes and the well pump.
2. Temperature difference deposits. (rare) This occurs anywhere the water cools off a small amount like what happens in a heat pump.
This also occurs in the hot water pipes and faucets when they cool off.
3. Heated water deposits inside the hot water heater. This occurs due to a slow crystallization process. This is also the process the Zeta Rod looks like it's intended to prevent.
4. Evaporation deposits. This occurs on the faucet airator, sink, tub, toilet bowl due to the water evaporating. There is no way to prevent the deposit, but a water softener will change that deposit to one that will wash back off when it's wet again.
This all reminds me of the time that I was asked to look over Luke's "Media fusion" microwave/maser based power line communication system.
The details are complicated, but I determined that although there may be a "magnetic acoustic" effect that would allow communications... His Site selection and substation configuration would make it impossible to separate RF communications from any power line communications and therefore His Test was invalid.
FYI: The investor took my advice and stayed away.
Luke spent over $5 million and failed.
You would also have to separate the different types of deposits.
1. Cold water deposits. This is very rare and occur in all the pipes and the well pump.
2. Temperature difference deposits. (rare) This occurs anywhere the water cools off a small amount like what happens in a heat pump.
This also occurs in the hot water pipes and faucets when they cool off.
3. Heated water deposits inside the hot water heater. This occurs due to a slow crystallization process. This is also the process the Zeta Rod looks like it's intended to prevent.
4. Evaporation deposits. This occurs on the faucet airator, sink, tub, toilet bowl due to the water evaporating. There is no way to prevent the deposit, but a water softener will change that deposit to one that will wash back off when it's wet again.
This all reminds me of the time that I was asked to look over Luke's "Media fusion" microwave/maser based power line communication system.
The details are complicated, but I determined that although there may be a "magnetic acoustic" effect that would allow communications... His Site selection and substation configuration would make it impossible to separate RF communications from any power line communications and therefore His Test was invalid.
FYI: The investor took my advice and stayed away.
Luke spent over $5 million and failed.
easy to post anonymously
As I have mentioned before, it is very easy to post your "expert" opinions in an internet forum behind a nickname. We are not going to be losing any time in these type of discussions where anything we say, will be taken as "snake oil".
Our first post, if you look back in the thread, was in response to someone who was asking about the Zeta Rod. We saw many comments and opinions from many of you internet authorities in water treatment that were clearly made without having even looked at the product. So we decided to make some resources available to people who may have questions about it, that way they can hear it directly from the manufacturer.
We posted our contact inforamation as well, yet we still have to hear from anyone regarding this site, or asking for tests. Do you honestly expect me to send a free unit (I assume you want it free) to someone who goes by "nhmaster" and gives no indication of who he is, or what his qualifications are other than proclaim to be a "master plumber"?
This will be the last comment we post, since there is no point in trying to have a decent and formal discussion with anyone here. So if anyone is interested in finding out more about us, contact us.
Thank you.
As I have mentioned before, it is very easy to post your "expert" opinions in an internet forum behind a nickname. We are not going to be losing any time in these type of discussions where anything we say, will be taken as "snake oil".
Our first post, if you look back in the thread, was in response to someone who was asking about the Zeta Rod. We saw many comments and opinions from many of you internet authorities in water treatment that were clearly made without having even looked at the product. So we decided to make some resources available to people who may have questions about it, that way they can hear it directly from the manufacturer.
We posted our contact inforamation as well, yet we still have to hear from anyone regarding this site, or asking for tests. Do you honestly expect me to send a free unit (I assume you want it free) to someone who goes by "nhmaster" and gives no indication of who he is, or what his qualifications are other than proclaim to be a "master plumber"?
This will be the last comment we post, since there is no point in trying to have a decent and formal discussion with anyone here. So if anyone is interested in finding out more about us, contact us.
Thank you.
Redwood
Master Plumber
It's easy...
left click on the blue NH Master and select "send private message to NH Master" from the pull down menu.
You will find that he does have the credentials and perhaps the unit can be returned after testing...
left click on the blue NH Master and select "send private message to NH Master" from the pull down menu.
You will find that he does have the credentials and perhaps the unit can be returned after testing...
Very sorry about the lateness, busy... I don't think the hard water test will come out differently because you are using a chemical reaction which would change the charge of the particle. A quick example, Salt is natural in the body, but we don't harden up. That is because the Na and Cl molecules are kept apart by a charge.
I don't know if that made sense but here is another company that sells a similar product. Good luck on your choice... www.EasyWater.com
I don't know if that made sense but here is another company that sells a similar product. Good luck on your choice... www.EasyWater.com
Redwood
Master Plumber
Different company same BS...
