You just gotta see this plumbing job

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by jar546, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. jar546

    jar546 In the Trades

    Messages:
    432
    Location:
    USA
    :D Remodeling and repairs at their finest.

    How to fit: Cast, PVC, Copper, ABS and Galvanized all within 8 feet of each other!

    [​IMG]
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    7,337
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Also Fernco couplers above ground.
  3. jar546

    jar546 In the Trades

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    432
    Location:
    USA
    I was debating whether or not to mention the Fernco couplers but figured the pipe types were the main attraction.
  4. Herk

    Herk Plumber

    Messages:
    547
    Location:
    S.E. Idaho
    I'm trying to make out what that is at the far end - is it an unvented trap at the base of a long PVC drop? That can't be good . . .
  5. thats nice.....

    anything can be done with fernco fittings,
    a 12 pack of Budweiser,
    and a willingness to learn.......


    you ought to post that to my pip slop page..

    that certainly would receive an "honorable mention"
  6. jar546

    jar546 In the Trades

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    432
    Location:
    USA
    Mark,

    Right click on the photo and save as then post it wherever you want
  7. Chris75

    Chris75 Electrician

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    608
    Location:
    Litchfield, CT
    What is the code for using ferncos?
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    21,937
    Location:
    New England
    As I understand it, the unbanded coupling is only supposed to be used under ground so that when you backfill the fill is supporting the pipes and keeps the ends aligned. Above ground, the metal band on the no-hub connector performs that function. If the ends of the pipe get misaligned, then it is a potential point for blockages, and could be a pain to have to snake it out as well.
  9. Daltex

    Daltex New Member

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    15
    Location:
    Texas
    Looks like the ABS has a cleanout going directly into a copper Tee.
  10. construct30

    construct30 New Member

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    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    I've read many times about not using ferncos above ground, but never in the IRC, IPC or UPC, maybe local, but not any of the major codes, just bull to say it's against code unless local. It is not a good idea and many inspectors frown on it, but they are aproved by the federal guide lines as far as I've ever been able to determine. If some one can quote chapter and verse then please let us know. Use a banded fitting it is best IMO, but not a code that I can find. Like I said I would like to be able to quote a code so if you found it let us know, please.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    14,929
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    Well.........You can try telling that to the inspectors.
    Do you have an inspector where you work that lets you use them?

    I've never been allowed to use them.
  12. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    I like the sleeved ones, wouldn't use one without, but I just want to know the article in the code that says you can't use one, I know it must be something to do with not enough support or something. I can't find an article that says not to use rubber ferncos except below grade. Maybe the inspector can explain, I just want to know and he's in Pa where I live.

    Go here http://www.fernco.com/speccode.asp They have all the approvals and then check out their installation guides.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
  13. Chris75

    Chris75 Electrician

    Messages:
    608
    Location:
    Litchfield, CT
    Terry, I'm an electrician by trade, but code is code, if they cannot re-cite it, then dont cite it... bottom line.
  14. construct30

    construct30 New Member

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    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    Correct, but not practical in the real world I live in, I like to keep inspectors happy as I can. Keep the inspector gods happy.
  15. Chris75

    Chris75 Electrician

    Messages:
    608
    Location:
    Litchfield, CT
    Why are they somehow better than you? I would rather teach them then let them think they are right... Besides, a phone call to the state usually changes their opinion pretty quick.

    An inspectors job is simple, they are really looking out for the customer, so them telling you not to use a easier product is actually causing hardship on the guy paying the bill... Is that fair?
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
  16. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,529
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Fernco

    Here, Fernco rubber couplings cannot be used inside the building, even underground.
  17. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    I was hoping to get an inspector's point of view on this subject. The banded fernco's are just as easy to use and work well and add the extra support.

    That being said, go to fernco's site, they have all the approvals and then look at their installation section.

    I never said they, the inspectors, were better than me or us, I just said it is easier to appease them sometimes instead of making waves. I will argue with the best of them if it's worth it, within reason. If they have a good reason for not wanting something then good enough for me, I accept it and move on.

    I just want to understand from an inspector's point of view, how a product with all the approvals can be against code when it is not actually written in the code. What are they using?:confused:

    IPC or UPC, not local.

  18. But this is where the great divide is.

    As plumbers we are consistently working "outside the book" in reference to a million situations that present us in everyday work. You can't "go to the book" always.

    Sometimes you have to truly think of the situation (ferncos) and think to yourself, "Is this an appropriate, non-fouling, error-free way of constructing a plumbing system?

    If you've been a plumber for any amount of time, you'll see these in their use because they are the shortcut to transitioning pipe, cheaply.

    When they have to hold pressure due to a backup, they expand and bulge. They also leak if there are points of movement in the connection from vibration or operation of the fixture it connects to.

    Piping can instantly become misaligned in those fittings above ground. They're fine for underground because instant compaction provides the support for the fitting, with the understanding that the installer uses grillage to fill around the pipe.


    There's nothing wrong with following the code book to a tee, but you'll eventually figure out that we as plumbers have to think outside that book to what we feel is in the best interest of industry and what provides the best repair.

    If we outperform the code book, we've done our jobs as plumbers to protect the health of the nation. If we live by "well if it's not in the codebook, it must be okay" theory, then you don't understand the logic of how and why that book was created to begin with.....


    It's an ongoing process of changes and revisions, certain products worked for a while until age changed that line of thinking, graduated to its removal or limited uses in the plumbing system that provides longevity without premature failure.

    Yeah, something like that.
  19. construct30

    construct30 New Member

    Messages:
    590
    Location:
    NorthWest PA
    You really said a mouthful. Like I said I do use banded fittings, just wondering about the inspectors view point. Hope he comes back to this.

    If you stand behind your work, you will go out of business without using rugged's wisdom.
  20. jar546

    jar546 In the Trades

    Messages:
    432
    Location:
    USA
    As far as the IRC is concerned, it does not specifically address Fernco to the best of my knowledge.

    There is a Legacy report that gives them approval for use as far as IRC is concerned.

    The Legacy report states the above ground use of the Ferco is subject to the approval of the inspector/AHJ. This makes it subjective which is not good.

    I personally don't have a problem with them, especially for the vent portion.

    If an IRC inspector wants to get technical, he can use P3002.3.1 of the IRC to disallow the use of a Fernco.
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