Would CSV work for my setup

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Swordfish, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Swordfish

    Swordfish New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Hanford, WA
    Type of pump?
    Submersible___Yes_____
    Two wire (no control)_____No___
    Three wire (control box)___Yes___
    Wire Size__8 or 10 awg___ Wire Length___Unknown_____
    or
    Jet Pump (above ground)_____No____
    One or two pipes down the well_One___

    Size of Pump?
    Motor Horsepower?___3Hp?_______
    Pump Model #_____Unknown_________
    Date Pump Installed____Late 70's?______

    Pumping from?
    Cistern tank___No________
    Pond, lake, river___No_____
    Water Well___Yes_________
    Depth of well__150+_______
    Depth to water___Unknown______
    Pump Setting__Unknown________
    Pipe Size___2______"
    Drop Pipe Material
    PVC___No_____
    Steel____Yes___
    Poly__No______

    Well Recovery Rate__Never Ran out_____gpm
    Well Casing Diameter__8_____â€
    Rock Well__________ Sand Well__________ Other______________
    Date Well Drilled__1976???__________

    Well Casing Material
    PVC__No______ Steel___Yes______ Other_________


    Pressure Tank?
    Bladder or diaphragm tank (one pipe to tank)___No_______
    Size or model of tank____No________
    Air charge in top of tank, with pump off and water drained____N/A________PSI
    (check with car tire gauge)
    or
    Plain Hydro Pneumatic tank (two pipes to tank, one in and one out)___yes______
    Size of tank__36" x 72"__unknown capacity____________

    Pressure Switch Setting?
    On 30, off 50 ________
    On 40, off 60__X_______
    Other_______________

    Pump Control Method?
    Cycle Stop Valve model #__Not Yet_______
    Variable speed control #___None_______
    Pump Start Relay (sprinkler timer, no tank)___No_______
    Manually turned on and off___No_________

    Pump Protection
    Cycle Sensor__None_______
    Pumptec___No__________
    Low pressure cutoff switch (lever on side)___Yes_______
    Other_______________

    Filters or Softeners__Not Yet____________
    Before or after pressure tank__N/A_____
    Type of filter____N/A_______________
    Bypass available____N/A____________

    Water Used For?
    House Use__Yes_____ Number of baths_2 1/2____ Number of People__3______
    High Flow Showers__No - Low flow_____gpm?
    Plus/Or
    Irrigation with timers_Yes_______
    Irrigation with hoses__Drip Yes______
    Heat Pump__N/A____gpm?


    Problems Experienced
    No Water___N/A______________
    Water only part time___N/A_____
    Water at all times but weak_N/A____
    Air in water____N/A___________
    Pressure surging__N/A_________
    Water Hammer (noise)__N/A____
    Too Much pressure___N/A______
    Other___Cycling to often. Every couple minutes when irrigating and low pressure at the house_________________


    Pump makes clicking or buzzing sounds__No______
    No Sounds____No__________
    Pressure gauge reading__40-60______psi
    Other____________________________________

    Do you have, and know how to use
    an Ampmeter and Voltmeter__Yes________________

    Describe Problem_
    I have 2 /12 acres in central california. I bought the house 12 years ago and moved from the city never having a well. The well I have never had a problem except for the controls which looked to be original. The house was built in 1976 and the flex conduit had been there so long that the insulation/outer coating had all but disappeared. The franklin box had no readable information on it so I called franklin and described it to them. They came up with the type/size it was and I replaced it with a new 3 hp franklin with a magnetic contractor and replaced all the conduit. The old box had caps that would go out about once a year baking i n the sun and the pressure switch would have the contacts go bad about every 9 months. No problems now at all with the control box. I have no idea what size pump or type I have except that the control box was sized for up to 3 hp and the pipe to the pump is 2". I have never had a problem with water. Turn it on and it will come out - never running out. The water is hard (Very) and in this area there in H2S in different areas although I got lucky and have none or very little. I replaced the shut off valve on the galvanized tank and looked inside the tank expecting a lot of sediment or sand but there was very little. The previous owner had 5 acres of walnuts and used this well to water them. I have been planting more and more trees which are watered with drips. Up to about 125 trees now plus the lawn in the front and back. I had ran 1 1/2" line out to the middle of the back half and used 1" sprinkler valves with 5/8" drip with about 25 trees on each zone. I had pressure problems with the smaller line the previous owner had ran, but with the 1 1/2 I have good pressure. Now for the problem.

    The house is about a 120' feet from the well and it was run on 1' line and the flow and pressure in the house are less than desirable. I'm in the process of installing a 2" line to the house from the well and for the watering zones I have in front. I believe this well help me flow and pressure problem at the house like it did in the back half and I was trying to find another larger galvanized tank to reduce the cycling at the well. (Every coupe minutes.) When I came across the CSV. Knowing that the cycling shortens the life of the pump this sounds like what I've been looking for. Especially knowing that the pump has been in there for 12+ years and maybe since 1976.
    1. Will a 2" threaded CSV work in a application like mine(Since the line from the pump is 2") with a conventional water tank reducing cycling during irrigation and helping keep constant pressure or better pressure at the house?
    2. How would it be installed? Pump-check valve (above ground)-2" CSV-galvanized water tank inlet with pressure switch-2" water tank outlet-to manifold out to house and watering stations?
    3. Should the check valve be replace at the same time? (Works good now as far as I know just preventive due to age.)
    4. Would an electronic pressure switch be preferable to the 40-60 one I have now? (It works fine now with the magnetic starter control box)
    5. Would adding the pump sensor/monitor be a good idea also?
    6. Do I need a small pressure tank also with the galvanized water tank? (I've had no problems it - Tank is 8' from the casing)
    7. Last do I or would I need to check the pump for a shroud? I'm trying to avoid having to pull the pump for no reason. I did drop a weighted string down the casing once and it was still dropping past 175-200' with water showing up around 75'. Don't know if that helps on anything. I would hate to burn up the pump by installing a CSV and the house not using the 5 gallons a minute. The irrigation part - I'm sure there wouldn't be a problem but I don't irrigate 24hrs a day.

    Thanks
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,549
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Yes a CSV would keep the pump from cycling and give better pressure to the house. And yes a CSV will work with a galve tank, but there are some considerations. First you need a brass bleeder orifice in the well, not a rubber one. Next cycling is now what charges your tank with air, so when the CSV reduces or eliminates cycling, you may not get enough air charge. Lowering the bleeder orifice will give more air when the pump does cycle, or you can use a compressor instead of the bleeder. You don’t want to run air from the bleeder through a 2” CSV, but all you need is a 1.25” CSV, and they work fine with a bleeder. You won’t “burn up” the pump with a CSV, BECAUSE it has a 5 GPM minimum. That doesn’t mean you can’t use less than 5 GPM. Just that the pump will cycle slowly when you do. You probably don’t smell the H2S because you have a galve tank. Changing out to a bladder tank is probably not a good idea. Since your pump seems to be holding up well, I would just turn up the pressure switch a little for better pressure in the house, manage the sprinklers to reduce cycling, and leave well enough alone. You can always fix these things and add a CSV when the pump has to be replaced.
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